I love a good map in a fantasy novel. I’ve spent ages poring over the Lord of the Rings maps. In fact, I love a good map in real life, as well.
Maps tell stories. We have a book called To The Ends of the Earth by Jeremy Harwood that chronicles the history of map-making and contains amazing things like this:
Close-up section of Ebstorf Mappa Mundi, Germany, c. 1300
Fictional maps tend to be more polarising. Joe Abercrombie has a really interesting stance on maps which makes a lot of sense. Many readers clearly love maps, either for practical reasons or for indulgent lore-wallowing. There are complex online tools for building your own maps, like Inkarnate.
How about you? Yes or no to fictional maps? If you’re a ‘yes’, what’s your favourite? If you’re a ‘no’, why is that?
I always suspect they're more for the author's benefit and enjoyment than the reader. Don't get me wrong, I love a map (real world or fictional) and in my younger days drew plenty. But has a map ever once assisted me even slightly in my enjoyment/comprehension of a book? Nope, not ever.
That said, they're what? Two pages? I can skip over a map as easily as I can skip over a glossary of Elvish words, so what the heck. Authors can put whatever ephemera they want into their book. But if they've done their job right in the writing, it should never be necessary.
Though the map in LotR is not necessary, as such, I definitely found it useful. For me it enhanced the reading experience and helped me better appreciate the social-political setup of the story., but without the text itself having to be laden down with explanations about where everything is and how it geographically connects to other areas.
I think LotR might be the only time that's been the case, though. In most oter book a map can feel superfluous, or even included due to being a genre default.
I mostly agree, but there have certainly been instances where I have kept referring back to a map to track where characters were. The most recent example I can think of is Samantha Shannon's The Priory of the Orange Tree. I didn't end up loving the book, but I did really appreciate the added depth to the world that being able to see that map added.
I love maps in general, real or fantasy. The Lord of the Rings are classics of course. I like the maps in The Wheel of Time series. I actually prefer more detail than less as I frequently refer to the maps while reading the book. For me, it helps to fix myself spatially in the story.
A map is already a fiction. It's a highly symbolic rendering of real space that allows the traveler to navigate the complexity of the real. Their utility requires that they do not replicate reality, but simplify it.
Perhaps people's aversion to fictionalized maps is because it doubles up the fiction -- like a painting of a painting.
That's very interesting! I hadn't thought about it in that context.
I suspect for some readers it's the other way around, though, with a good map helping to clarify the text. Especially for a reader who might not have the best spatial awareness.
Great observation! I have struggled to connect with fantasy writing as an adult and I think this may have something to do with it. A fiction on a fiction might - like my albeit outdated appreciation of fantasy series - be just too much made up stuff. A map at the start of a fantasy novel makes my brain go "oh no...another hero's journey so convuluted they think I need a map to keep track of it all!" yet maps as speculative fictions (like many in the reddit r/imaginarymaps) seem..well...a speculation about reality and hence more appealing to me.
I always appreciate a fun map. If a book has one, I'll look at it. I've seen stunning maps. If a book doesn't have one, I don't miss it, but maps are great.
Something the article you side linked from Joe Abercrombie got me thinking. He raised the point about inaccurate maps, and how fans will jump on "incorrect scale," or other anomalies, and I think he's overlooked something our 21st century perspective of satellite imagery maps often forgets.
Most maps throughout history have been wildly inaccurate. When the map is drawn from the perspective of ground/sea level looking at the edge of a thing, and the cartographer isn't actually using a measuring device of some kind, the map is going to be wrong - and that's before we get to the mathematical/topographical impossibilities of spreading the surface of a sphere onto a flat surface without further distortion.
Let's not even get into the creeping errors introduced by hand-copying for millenia, and whatever errors someone preparing an engraving plate may have made after printing presses were invented.
So, enjoy the fantasy map, but, definitely don't fall into the trap of saying the map has inaccuracies, or "doesn't match book descriptions." Logically, and "realistically" the map represents the interpretation of cartographer - both the actual artist, and in "in universe" creator, not an actual "objective map."
Of course, in hi-tech sci-fi the map should be "accurate."
Also, this. I love the ancient map showing a tiny Antarctica west/southwest of Africa.
Even in a hi-tech scifi future the map could still be 'inaccurate' due to political or cultural interference. And that's something you touched upon about maps historically being inaccurate and having an element of fiction: I rather like the idea of a map in a book being an unreliable narrator in itself. A map that is wrong on purpose, deliberately misleading the reader from the very beginning. I wonder if that's been done?
Fictional or not, there is nothing like a good map to accompany a book- particularly, if it is hand-drawn, ink on paper... I wasn't planning to add a map to my novel I am now revising since it happens in the 'real world,' but... just perhaps. You have given me an idea once again Simon, cheers to that!
I've not needed a map for Triverse so far, as most of it has taken place in London (albeit a slightly alt version of it). Upcoming storylines will lean more heavily into more exotic locations, though, so I'm thinking I'll need a couple of maps just for my own use, even if they don't go public.
When I read Triverse, I love recognising London landmarks and would probably be very excited to see a map of a city I assume I know...only to discover that it is actually slightly but essentially different! Like Lyra's Oxford in Philip Pulman's Northern Lights trilogy...the slight deviations from expected reality make the storytelling feel more visceral, less like a fantasy and more like an account of things that could yet (somewhere a lot like here!) occurr...
Some of the alt history timeline makes London place names really fiddly. It's surprising how much is named after the Napoleonic wars! Which in Triverse...didn't really happen, or at least, not in the same way.
Yes to all maps: up to date, historical and fictional. I can get lost in detail and it does give an extra dimension (and makes a fantasy novel more real?) but I’m not sure I refer to them once I’m reading. I have drawn sketchy maps for my own fiction to keep me on track and not send someone past a place that should be on the other side of town. Fave maps might have to be the ones of the Discworld and Ankh Morpork that my other half had on his bedroom wall when we started going out, many many years ago.
Great question and discussion. I use maps in my two works in progress, a short story collection based in a West Virginia coal mining town over a 100-year period and a Young Adult speculative thriller that takes place in a working mine near the same town in present day. I think they help the stories' authenticity for a reader. As a writer, I couldn't keep things straight without them.
Maps of all kinds! I'm a geographer by birth and an artist in practice so map making probably would have been an ideal job but in my next life. I have loved the map in the Winnie the Pooh books since childhood and now love a book immediately if it has a map in the front.
Well.. It's a big yes from me! Maps are my thing. My whole fiction series is retrospectively written as stories around abstract art maps I've created. So the maps act as prompts, but also contexts and locations for the stories. I'm into my second series now! Visit Curious Questers if you're curious. https://ofmappery.substack.com/p/the-curious-questers-road-trip
So... I don't use Substack much. I signed up solely to read Simon's work after he shifted from WattPad. Along with Simon, I'm subscribed to Seth Abramson.
Making you only the third Substack user I've subbed to in about 2.5 years or so.
The concept of writing your stories based on fictional and abstract maps is interesting, so... On another day when I have more online time in my budget, I'll check things out.
Not tonight. Tonight it's time to log out and do dinner.
I used to create maps for the universes I created. I spent countless monies and hours over them. At the end of the day, however, no matter how brilliant it looked in my mind I could never get it to look the way I wanted on the screen. I'm sure that's no fault of the program. Just my lack of artistry and how to properly used the tools made available to me.
All that said, one thing I find I'm good at and I enjoy more is building out family trees. Should you discuss that in the future I'll be sure to chime in.
As for maps, I will scribble some by hand on paper and on a tablet. This is usually for me so that I can have a visual representation whenever I have characters going on a journey. Not for public use. And what I'll be dabbling in soon enough, from reading enough Agatha Christie novels, is floor maps. Used for setting a scene, dropping some clues, etc. I'm really looking forward to that as it will be a series of lines (simple enough?) and labels with the occasional icon to represent different things. I suppose that is a type of map as well, right?
Absolutely. Sometimes (specifying this is for TTRPG use) I'll just use a "schematic map." Just a couple days ago I was running at a convention. Limited time and I wanted "fog of war," but not slow things down with the players mapping off a description, or take the time and effort to do a map, use a short throw projector to put the map on table, and reveal the map by erasing parts of a black layer over the map in a graphics program (I thought about it, and another GM actually DID that exact thing).
I just tossed a sheet of paper out, wrote a "B" and "J" on it and told the players those were the two possible entry points. From there I just drew lines to other areas and dropped the encounter letter on the map. Worked well enough. Gave the players enough info to get a rough set of geography. And they quickly figured out my "naming scheme." A for the alligator swamp, B for the B, C for the chasm, J for the jungle, etc. I smiled as, when faced with options to move to "H" or "L." They were trying to figure out if I used "Hideout" or "Lair."
They guessed H. H was the Holy Temple Ruins. Turned out to actually be the correct guess. The quest item (a map which I actually DID draw in detail and print at A3 since it's the ancient campaign map, not a one off) was buried in the ruins, not kept in the Rival's Lair. Fortunately the players chose to explore the ruins rather than immediately backtrack to L, meaning they bypassed a couple of battles, and never actually had to defeat the Rival!
Now, the quest item map... I spent some time on it. Sketched out my landmasses, used filters and warp tools to distort sections, gave it a nice paper texture, hit parts of it with smudge brushes (map was centuries old) for water damage, and even added the footprints where a cat had walked across wet ink. This version started from my base eroded landmass shapes from the "pretty" and "accurate" map. The ancient map doesn't match the real map, as the players will discover, but it's good enough for future missions to let them find the continents they didn't know existed. Think a world map drawn 1000 years ago vs today's satellite maps.
Anyways, for the game session I had a couple of maps I spent three or three hours preparing (as the campaign expands to new areas, I'll label more of the map. Right now it's landforms, major rivers, and varied textures for grassland, forest, desert, mountain, etc), made "pretty," then, for the in-game maps of mission locations I penciled single letters on a sheet of paper and drew lines between them.
Both are maps, both served their purpose. Both had suitable amounts of time given to creation. The world map for the campaign players may spend months or years exploring deserved some time to make look pretty good. One off maps get no love.
The "pretty" map, as a digital file, can be refined as needed. Since this is an "Age of Exploration" (think Europe analog around 1450-1500AD), real maps from that time weren't accurate, so my map doesn't have to be as well. If a player says "You changed the map," I'll say, "Yeah, your navigator keeps redrawing it as you go to more places!"
I've probably looked at the foldout map of Middle Earth is my 50th anniversary edition of Lord of the Rings more than any other single map ever made. I have a friend on social media in England who makes fictional maps for authors, and it looks like some wonderful fun.
There's a real satisfaction when a fictional map tallies perfectly with the storytelling. There's a reason the LotR films foregrounded the world map - it's such a sprawling tale that understanding the geographical locations of the various factions is vital.
Absolutely yes! I think they're usually more helpful to the writer than to the reader, but they're still so cool to study. LotR is definitely up there on my list of favorites.
There's a sense of excitement to finding a map at the front of a book, I think. None of it means anything or makes sense, but the feeling of impending discovery is intoxicating. Much like examining a map of a city you're about to visit, or a map of a stretch of countryside when planning a hike.
I like fictional maps, mostly in fantasy where we usually have stories in other worlds or ancient periods in world history. It is almost a requirement in complex stories like The Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones.
I really dig maps in general especially the ones made of paper. My father and my grandfather both were topo-mappers for the US Geological survey so maps were always around when I grew up. In spite of that I can't think of any particular novel where maps made a huge impact on my enjoyment. Here's a shameless promo; I drew a map for my own novel which I think is pretty cool. You can see it here: https://rubenbix.substack.com/p/5-the-former-site-of-a-paleo-indian
I'm gonna just assume I get to take credit for inspiring this week's newsletter. Over the weekend I ran three sessions of a pirate based TTRPG at a local con, and had shared with Simon my early campaign planning.
The whole campaign is a loose "Eurocentric" Age of Exploration on a fictional map, set 500 years after the fall of the Holy Empire, a century after the plague killed most of the continent and led to loss of knowledge.
Mission 1: The Ancient Map of Patrocles was found and given to the Court of Éire, where it became part of the Royal Library. The map was stolen by a visiting foreign Admiral. Players had to get it back, and, of COURSE they copied it..
Mission 2: Now the players know of the "lost" "Indus" continent, they voyage to Sind, open a new trade route for saffron, and disrupt the trade monopoly of the cartel in Castille which had been the only group on the continent of Erebo still possessing maps showing Indus.
Mission 3, Castillian agents try to retrieve the map back from the players (the players are hired by an agent of the cartel to steal all the legal documents from the cartel leader blamed for the break in monopoly, at which point the players would be turned in for the theft, and charged with the murder of an opposing agent from mission 2, letting the cartel raid the player's ships, warehouses, and estates for all their maps, treaties, letters of marque, etc, while the players were tried and hung.
So, of course I had to do my world map (already "inaccurate" due to Cartesian projection), the go back and distort the map farther as the ancient map, which was even less accurate (see my other post in this thread).
Anyways, I showed Simon an in-progress version of the map after my continents were placed, sent him early mission and atlas notes, and partway through adding labels and filling in details. Thus, I claim to have inspired today's Simon newsletter.
Oh, mission 1 went well, although one PC snapped and tried to destroy the map (she's been deposed as Captain, had a grudge, and her player gave me permission to use her PC as an NPC, because when someone hands you a character which is crazy, vengeful, and TOUGH (Fiona the Dread survived being hung FOUR times and is now Fiona the Unhangable), with a personal vendetta against the player's cartel, you gotta develop that for further missions. In RPG speak, my one-off con player created the BBEG for the campaign.
Mission 2: players opened the trade route, but treated the main Rival, Francisco, with respect and honor (Francisco started the mission as a spy in the crew, using his position as Ship's Vicar to undermine Captain's authority and ferment discord along the crew). Rather than hang the traitor and his henchmen, they just tossed them in the brig and booted them off the ship in Barcelona.
Mission 3: The agent of the Castillian cartel was the betrothed of Francisco. Because they treated him so well, Lady Ariaña had no personal reason to want the crew dead. She decided that, after the player's properties had been raided, Francisco would appear alive, so the players would only face prison for theft, not hanging for murder. When the PCs discovered the duplicity, they chose negotiation with the cartel and carved up the market between them.
Overall, really reasonable, honorable and restrained action for a pirate game. My usual group probably would have killed all their rivals. Good times. Good start to a persistent convention campaign, and three players were in at least two of the three sessions. When there are close to a hundred events across 38 different RPG systems to enjoy, having returning players is nice. Means I entertained them enough to come back for more.
I'm a big no when it comes to fictional maps. I think a lot of the interest in maps was fueled by Tolkien, who drew his own. I skip over them in other people's books. For myself, at best I do a rough sketch of how things are laid out for better visualization of distances, and so on.
This is especially important when you're changing names of a location in a real world setting. I'm not particularly interested in trying to figure out how to fit the mythical location of Thunder County (from my Martiniere books) into the layout of Northeastern Oregon, other than it's north of the Wallowas, which means a big chunk is added to the real-world NE corner of the state. It's just there. The layout of the Wallowa Valley doesn't fit what I need Thunder Valley to be, so...it's just mythical, a state of mind if you have it.
My Netwalk books are closer to actual geography, especially up on Mt. Hood.
I do feel like a map should be an optional thing. Lord of the Rings works fine without a map, but I did find that the map *enhanced* my enjoyment of the story and added additional depth and satisfaction. If a reader has to lean heavily on a map to make sense of things, that's problematic.
I am definitely in favor of maps, particularly if there's politics or battles involved. The LOTR map and the Narnia map are my favorites, if I'm honest, although I do like the Wheel of Time map. Years and years ago a friend of mine drew a map for a novel I'd written; it was the neatest thing. Good times...
I do think that politics-heavy stories can benefit from the map. Just like my understanding of REAL world politics and warfare is enhanced by being able to study a map of the affected regions, so can a fictional setting be elevated. Warfare stories are so dependent on physical space that it can be confusing without. HIstorical and contemporary novels get away with not including maps partly because we can just go and look at real historical maps.
I love a map, whether the world is real, slightly-real or complete fantasy. I struggle sometimes to orient myself to a fictional journey - we're barrelling along and then suddenly there are hills where I had thought there would be sea or somesuch - and I just need to look at a map and see how the landscape fits together.
I love fictional maps. I got hooked on fictional maps as a kid when reading "Wind in the Willows" and saw the way to Toad Hall, The Badger's Den, Ratty's Bungalow, etc.
In the 80s Usborne's 'Puzzle Adventures' are what got me hooked on maps. Most of the pages were maps or mazes of some sort, and navigating through them to uncover the story was part of the joy.
Thank you for this trip down memory lane! :) When I wrote my first fantasy "novels" I drew lots of maps of my fictional continent. Later I discovered the historic meaning of maps as the Epsdorfer Map you mentioned in this newsletter. By now I am more willing to write about them and the men an women who made them in former times than draw my own.
Yes, I love a good map. In something like Wheel of Time I even flip back to them fairly regularly to check where things are at. And as others have said, I do draw maps, floor plans, schematics and so on when I’m writing, to keep things straight in my story, though these will probably not be included in final publication.
I'm the same: I often sketch maps for my own reference, but don't tend to include them for readers. It's a useful reference for me as a writer, though, and ensures I don't contradict myself geographically: physical space can be an active part of a plot, after all.
Maps are so good not only for pleasing the eye, but for having soooo much more context to alot of things. For example the distance beetween two regions or traveling routes.
In a large tale of warfare it can be useful, too. I've found myself a bit confused in the Witcher series about where everything is in relation to everything else, which is quite important due to warring nations.
Historical and real world novels don't always need to include maps because we can go and look at actual maps: a work of fiction set at the outbreak of World War 1, for example, won't need it's own maps but they're still readily available to a curious reader.
"Fictional maps tend to be more polarising." How so? 🤔 Like in the sense that fans tend to argue about how well it was made in accuracy to the world descriptions or in how it does not match their mental vision of how the world looks? Or something else entirely?
I meant primarily in terms of some people REALLY disliking fictional maps, finding them very silly, and sometimes actively avoiding a book *because* it has a map. You can see that full range of responses in these comments, in fact. :)
But yet - also as fuel for fan argument, but that's a slightly different angle I wasn't thinking about in my initial question.
Wow! I did not realize they were such a polarizing subject! 😲 I love fictional maps, and tend to draw versions of them when I'm writing a piece to help give myself a sense of scale.
The only thing I might wish was done differently when they come in a book is to include a poster or mini version, with the front of book map. That way, the reader can pin it up or create like a gallery of fictional maps to keep in a binder or something and still keep track of the story's journey.
Some fantasy stories take the reader on such a long journey, that I find myself getting lost along the way, even with the front map because I am not stopping to flip back to the front (hence the second map inclusion).
When Tolkien included his map, it was a piece of eccentricity. Today it is a marker of genre and it screams "worldbuilding!" And I'm with Abercrombie on this. I don't like worldbuilding for worldbuilding's sake. And I don't like it in Tolkien any better than I like it in anyone else.
So I suppose if you are writing a worldbuilding book with a generic pro-forma story, yes, include a map, because that makes it easy for me to avoid your book. But if you are writing an original and engaging story with just enough worldbuilding to set the stage for the action, leave out the map or I will probably skip your book.
I'm genuinely shocked by this. Not liking a map is one thing, actively skipping a book because it has one is another. Figure you could just ignore the map!
Not saying you're wrong to have this attitude - it's yours and I'll respect it - but it's quite vehement!
As I said, its a genre signal -- like a girl in Spandex on the cover is a genre signal. Most books have multiple genre signals, and we all use them to select the books we read. Maps have just become one I have learned to be rather reliable for me.
I always suspect they're more for the author's benefit and enjoyment than the reader. Don't get me wrong, I love a map (real world or fictional) and in my younger days drew plenty. But has a map ever once assisted me even slightly in my enjoyment/comprehension of a book? Nope, not ever.
That said, they're what? Two pages? I can skip over a map as easily as I can skip over a glossary of Elvish words, so what the heck. Authors can put whatever ephemera they want into their book. But if they've done their job right in the writing, it should never be necessary.
Though the map in LotR is not necessary, as such, I definitely found it useful. For me it enhanced the reading experience and helped me better appreciate the social-political setup of the story., but without the text itself having to be laden down with explanations about where everything is and how it geographically connects to other areas.
I think LotR might be the only time that's been the case, though. In most oter book a map can feel superfluous, or even included due to being a genre default.
I mostly agree, but there have certainly been instances where I have kept referring back to a map to track where characters were. The most recent example I can think of is Samantha Shannon's The Priory of the Orange Tree. I didn't end up loving the book, but I did really appreciate the added depth to the world that being able to see that map added.
I can't speak for all authors, though I agree that maps help my storytelling. I do enjoy them as a reader, too.
I love maps in general, real or fantasy. The Lord of the Rings are classics of course. I like the maps in The Wheel of Time series. I actually prefer more detail than less as I frequently refer to the maps while reading the book. For me, it helps to fix myself spatially in the story.
A map is already a fiction. It's a highly symbolic rendering of real space that allows the traveler to navigate the complexity of the real. Their utility requires that they do not replicate reality, but simplify it.
Perhaps people's aversion to fictionalized maps is because it doubles up the fiction -- like a painting of a painting.
That's very interesting! I hadn't thought about it in that context.
I suspect for some readers it's the other way around, though, with a good map helping to clarify the text. Especially for a reader who might not have the best spatial awareness.
Great observation! I have struggled to connect with fantasy writing as an adult and I think this may have something to do with it. A fiction on a fiction might - like my albeit outdated appreciation of fantasy series - be just too much made up stuff. A map at the start of a fantasy novel makes my brain go "oh no...another hero's journey so convuluted they think I need a map to keep track of it all!" yet maps as speculative fictions (like many in the reddit r/imaginarymaps) seem..well...a speculation about reality and hence more appealing to me.
This is a good take. I've never disliked having a map in a book, though some are more obscure than others (I'm looking at you, Frank Herbert).
I always appreciate a fun map. If a book has one, I'll look at it. I've seen stunning maps. If a book doesn't have one, I don't miss it, but maps are great.
Something the article you side linked from Joe Abercrombie got me thinking. He raised the point about inaccurate maps, and how fans will jump on "incorrect scale," or other anomalies, and I think he's overlooked something our 21st century perspective of satellite imagery maps often forgets.
Most maps throughout history have been wildly inaccurate. When the map is drawn from the perspective of ground/sea level looking at the edge of a thing, and the cartographer isn't actually using a measuring device of some kind, the map is going to be wrong - and that's before we get to the mathematical/topographical impossibilities of spreading the surface of a sphere onto a flat surface without further distortion.
Let's not even get into the creeping errors introduced by hand-copying for millenia, and whatever errors someone preparing an engraving plate may have made after printing presses were invented.
So, enjoy the fantasy map, but, definitely don't fall into the trap of saying the map has inaccuracies, or "doesn't match book descriptions." Logically, and "realistically" the map represents the interpretation of cartographer - both the actual artist, and in "in universe" creator, not an actual "objective map."
Of course, in hi-tech sci-fi the map should be "accurate."
Also, this. I love the ancient map showing a tiny Antarctica west/southwest of Africa.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_world_maps
Even in a hi-tech scifi future the map could still be 'inaccurate' due to political or cultural interference. And that's something you touched upon about maps historically being inaccurate and having an element of fiction: I rather like the idea of a map in a book being an unreliable narrator in itself. A map that is wrong on purpose, deliberately misleading the reader from the very beginning. I wonder if that's been done?
oooo I like it. Then the map become an in-world artefact that tells you even more about the world through its construction....yes, examples?
Fictional or not, there is nothing like a good map to accompany a book- particularly, if it is hand-drawn, ink on paper... I wasn't planning to add a map to my novel I am now revising since it happens in the 'real world,' but... just perhaps. You have given me an idea once again Simon, cheers to that!
Excellent!
I love maps in fantasy epics. As an author, I try to illustrate my map early on. And I then rely on it as a tool throughout the rest of the series.
I've not needed a map for Triverse so far, as most of it has taken place in London (albeit a slightly alt version of it). Upcoming storylines will lean more heavily into more exotic locations, though, so I'm thinking I'll need a couple of maps just for my own use, even if they don't go public.
When I read Triverse, I love recognising London landmarks and would probably be very excited to see a map of a city I assume I know...only to discover that it is actually slightly but essentially different! Like Lyra's Oxford in Philip Pulman's Northern Lights trilogy...the slight deviations from expected reality make the storytelling feel more visceral, less like a fantasy and more like an account of things that could yet (somewhere a lot like here!) occurr...
Some of the alt history timeline makes London place names really fiddly. It's surprising how much is named after the Napoleonic wars! Which in Triverse...didn't really happen, or at least, not in the same way.
What a good way to reveal these historical differences though!
Yes to all maps: up to date, historical and fictional. I can get lost in detail and it does give an extra dimension (and makes a fantasy novel more real?) but I’m not sure I refer to them once I’m reading. I have drawn sketchy maps for my own fiction to keep me on track and not send someone past a place that should be on the other side of town. Fave maps might have to be the ones of the Discworld and Ankh Morpork that my other half had on his bedroom wall when we started going out, many many years ago.
Great question and discussion. I use maps in my two works in progress, a short story collection based in a West Virginia coal mining town over a 100-year period and a Young Adult speculative thriller that takes place in a working mine near the same town in present day. I think they help the stories' authenticity for a reader. As a writer, I couldn't keep things straight without them.
Maps of all kinds! I'm a geographer by birth and an artist in practice so map making probably would have been an ideal job but in my next life. I have loved the map in the Winnie the Pooh books since childhood and now love a book immediately if it has a map in the front.
I'm now imagining you born with a set of cartographer's tools, sketching away with your first breath. :)
Well of course!
Well.. It's a big yes from me! Maps are my thing. My whole fiction series is retrospectively written as stories around abstract art maps I've created. So the maps act as prompts, but also contexts and locations for the stories. I'm into my second series now! Visit Curious Questers if you're curious. https://ofmappery.substack.com/p/the-curious-questers-road-trip
This is fascinating! Having the map as the starting point for the stories, rather than a result of the stories. Love it!
Yes! I can always be relied on to do things arse about face (if you'll excuse the expression!). But it's fun!
So... I don't use Substack much. I signed up solely to read Simon's work after he shifted from WattPad. Along with Simon, I'm subscribed to Seth Abramson.
Making you only the third Substack user I've subbed to in about 2.5 years or so.
The concept of writing your stories based on fictional and abstract maps is interesting, so... On another day when I have more online time in my budget, I'll check things out.
Not tonight. Tonight it's time to log out and do dinner.
Thanks, Mike. Honoured to be one of the few you're subscribing too! I hope you enjoy when you get some time.
And so, it begins.
This is a really cool concept, Debs!
Thank you, Nathan 🙏🏻. I'm really enjoying it as a way to combine my art and writing.
I used to create maps for the universes I created. I spent countless monies and hours over them. At the end of the day, however, no matter how brilliant it looked in my mind I could never get it to look the way I wanted on the screen. I'm sure that's no fault of the program. Just my lack of artistry and how to properly used the tools made available to me.
All that said, one thing I find I'm good at and I enjoy more is building out family trees. Should you discuss that in the future I'll be sure to chime in.
As for maps, I will scribble some by hand on paper and on a tablet. This is usually for me so that I can have a visual representation whenever I have characters going on a journey. Not for public use. And what I'll be dabbling in soon enough, from reading enough Agatha Christie novels, is floor maps. Used for setting a scene, dropping some clues, etc. I'm really looking forward to that as it will be a series of lines (simple enough?) and labels with the occasional icon to represent different things. I suppose that is a type of map as well, right?
Absolutely. Sometimes (specifying this is for TTRPG use) I'll just use a "schematic map." Just a couple days ago I was running at a convention. Limited time and I wanted "fog of war," but not slow things down with the players mapping off a description, or take the time and effort to do a map, use a short throw projector to put the map on table, and reveal the map by erasing parts of a black layer over the map in a graphics program (I thought about it, and another GM actually DID that exact thing).
I just tossed a sheet of paper out, wrote a "B" and "J" on it and told the players those were the two possible entry points. From there I just drew lines to other areas and dropped the encounter letter on the map. Worked well enough. Gave the players enough info to get a rough set of geography. And they quickly figured out my "naming scheme." A for the alligator swamp, B for the B, C for the chasm, J for the jungle, etc. I smiled as, when faced with options to move to "H" or "L." They were trying to figure out if I used "Hideout" or "Lair."
They guessed H. H was the Holy Temple Ruins. Turned out to actually be the correct guess. The quest item (a map which I actually DID draw in detail and print at A3 since it's the ancient campaign map, not a one off) was buried in the ruins, not kept in the Rival's Lair. Fortunately the players chose to explore the ruins rather than immediately backtrack to L, meaning they bypassed a couple of battles, and never actually had to defeat the Rival!
Now, the quest item map... I spent some time on it. Sketched out my landmasses, used filters and warp tools to distort sections, gave it a nice paper texture, hit parts of it with smudge brushes (map was centuries old) for water damage, and even added the footprints where a cat had walked across wet ink. This version started from my base eroded landmass shapes from the "pretty" and "accurate" map. The ancient map doesn't match the real map, as the players will discover, but it's good enough for future missions to let them find the continents they didn't know existed. Think a world map drawn 1000 years ago vs today's satellite maps.
Anyways, for the game session I had a couple of maps I spent three or three hours preparing (as the campaign expands to new areas, I'll label more of the map. Right now it's landforms, major rivers, and varied textures for grassland, forest, desert, mountain, etc), made "pretty," then, for the in-game maps of mission locations I penciled single letters on a sheet of paper and drew lines between them.
Both are maps, both served their purpose. Both had suitable amounts of time given to creation. The world map for the campaign players may spend months or years exploring deserved some time to make look pretty good. One off maps get no love.
The "pretty" map, as a digital file, can be refined as needed. Since this is an "Age of Exploration" (think Europe analog around 1450-1500AD), real maps from that time weren't accurate, so my map doesn't have to be as well. If a player says "You changed the map," I'll say, "Yeah, your navigator keeps redrawing it as you go to more places!"
I've probably looked at the foldout map of Middle Earth is my 50th anniversary edition of Lord of the Rings more than any other single map ever made. I have a friend on social media in England who makes fictional maps for authors, and it looks like some wonderful fun.
There's a real satisfaction when a fictional map tallies perfectly with the storytelling. There's a reason the LotR films foregrounded the world map - it's such a sprawling tale that understanding the geographical locations of the various factions is vital.
Absolutely yes! I think they're usually more helpful to the writer than to the reader, but they're still so cool to study. LotR is definitely up there on my list of favorites.
There's a sense of excitement to finding a map at the front of a book, I think. None of it means anything or makes sense, but the feeling of impending discovery is intoxicating. Much like examining a map of a city you're about to visit, or a map of a stretch of countryside when planning a hike.
I like fictional maps, mostly in fantasy where we usually have stories in other worlds or ancient periods in world history. It is almost a requirement in complex stories like The Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones.
Definitely enjoy a good map. Readers are free to enjoy or ignore, without detracting from their enjoyment of a book.
I really dig maps in general especially the ones made of paper. My father and my grandfather both were topo-mappers for the US Geological survey so maps were always around when I grew up. In spite of that I can't think of any particular novel where maps made a huge impact on my enjoyment. Here's a shameless promo; I drew a map for my own novel which I think is pretty cool. You can see it here: https://rubenbix.substack.com/p/5-the-former-site-of-a-paleo-indian
That IS pretty cool. Looks great!
Thanks. Publishing my novel online forced me to learn how to become a faster, hopefully better, illustrator.
I'm gonna just assume I get to take credit for inspiring this week's newsletter. Over the weekend I ran three sessions of a pirate based TTRPG at a local con, and had shared with Simon my early campaign planning.
The whole campaign is a loose "Eurocentric" Age of Exploration on a fictional map, set 500 years after the fall of the Holy Empire, a century after the plague killed most of the continent and led to loss of knowledge.
Mission 1: The Ancient Map of Patrocles was found and given to the Court of Éire, where it became part of the Royal Library. The map was stolen by a visiting foreign Admiral. Players had to get it back, and, of COURSE they copied it..
Mission 2: Now the players know of the "lost" "Indus" continent, they voyage to Sind, open a new trade route for saffron, and disrupt the trade monopoly of the cartel in Castille which had been the only group on the continent of Erebo still possessing maps showing Indus.
Mission 3, Castillian agents try to retrieve the map back from the players (the players are hired by an agent of the cartel to steal all the legal documents from the cartel leader blamed for the break in monopoly, at which point the players would be turned in for the theft, and charged with the murder of an opposing agent from mission 2, letting the cartel raid the player's ships, warehouses, and estates for all their maps, treaties, letters of marque, etc, while the players were tried and hung.
So, of course I had to do my world map (already "inaccurate" due to Cartesian projection), the go back and distort the map farther as the ancient map, which was even less accurate (see my other post in this thread).
Anyways, I showed Simon an in-progress version of the map after my continents were placed, sent him early mission and atlas notes, and partway through adding labels and filling in details. Thus, I claim to have inspired today's Simon newsletter.
Oh, mission 1 went well, although one PC snapped and tried to destroy the map (she's been deposed as Captain, had a grudge, and her player gave me permission to use her PC as an NPC, because when someone hands you a character which is crazy, vengeful, and TOUGH (Fiona the Dread survived being hung FOUR times and is now Fiona the Unhangable), with a personal vendetta against the player's cartel, you gotta develop that for further missions. In RPG speak, my one-off con player created the BBEG for the campaign.
Mission 2: players opened the trade route, but treated the main Rival, Francisco, with respect and honor (Francisco started the mission as a spy in the crew, using his position as Ship's Vicar to undermine Captain's authority and ferment discord along the crew). Rather than hang the traitor and his henchmen, they just tossed them in the brig and booted them off the ship in Barcelona.
Mission 3: The agent of the Castillian cartel was the betrothed of Francisco. Because they treated him so well, Lady Ariaña had no personal reason to want the crew dead. She decided that, after the player's properties had been raided, Francisco would appear alive, so the players would only face prison for theft, not hanging for murder. When the PCs discovered the duplicity, they chose negotiation with the cartel and carved up the market between them.
Overall, really reasonable, honorable and restrained action for a pirate game. My usual group probably would have killed all their rivals. Good times. Good start to a persistent convention campaign, and three players were in at least two of the three sessions. When there are close to a hundred events across 38 different RPG systems to enjoy, having returning players is nice. Means I entertained them enough to come back for more.
I'd noted down this discussion topic many weeks ago, I'm afraid Mike, so I'm going to have to deny you credit on this occasion.
THAT SAID, we have almost certainly discussed fictional maps in previous years, so there's that. :)
Well, darn! 😉
I'm a big no when it comes to fictional maps. I think a lot of the interest in maps was fueled by Tolkien, who drew his own. I skip over them in other people's books. For myself, at best I do a rough sketch of how things are laid out for better visualization of distances, and so on.
This is especially important when you're changing names of a location in a real world setting. I'm not particularly interested in trying to figure out how to fit the mythical location of Thunder County (from my Martiniere books) into the layout of Northeastern Oregon, other than it's north of the Wallowas, which means a big chunk is added to the real-world NE corner of the state. It's just there. The layout of the Wallowa Valley doesn't fit what I need Thunder Valley to be, so...it's just mythical, a state of mind if you have it.
My Netwalk books are closer to actual geography, especially up on Mt. Hood.
I do feel like a map should be an optional thing. Lord of the Rings works fine without a map, but I did find that the map *enhanced* my enjoyment of the story and added additional depth and satisfaction. If a reader has to lean heavily on a map to make sense of things, that's problematic.
I am definitely in favor of maps, particularly if there's politics or battles involved. The LOTR map and the Narnia map are my favorites, if I'm honest, although I do like the Wheel of Time map. Years and years ago a friend of mine drew a map for a novel I'd written; it was the neatest thing. Good times...
I do think that politics-heavy stories can benefit from the map. Just like my understanding of REAL world politics and warfare is enhanced by being able to study a map of the affected regions, so can a fictional setting be elevated. Warfare stories are so dependent on physical space that it can be confusing without. HIstorical and contemporary novels get away with not including maps partly because we can just go and look at real historical maps.
Maps? Yes, of course. I use maps and diagrams for myself all the time. Tolkien's maps were very useful.
I love a map, whether the world is real, slightly-real or complete fantasy. I struggle sometimes to orient myself to a fictional journey - we're barrelling along and then suddenly there are hills where I had thought there would be sea or somesuch - and I just need to look at a map and see how the landscape fits together.
They're useful for connecting the dots in the plot. But most of us would probably need to outsource the construction of them to a cartographer.
I like maps. They help me to understand what's going on in the story, and they're fun!
I love fictional maps. I got hooked on fictional maps as a kid when reading "Wind in the Willows" and saw the way to Toad Hall, The Badger's Den, Ratty's Bungalow, etc.
In the 80s Usborne's 'Puzzle Adventures' are what got me hooked on maps. Most of the pages were maps or mazes of some sort, and navigating through them to uncover the story was part of the joy.
Thank you for this trip down memory lane! :) When I wrote my first fantasy "novels" I drew lots of maps of my fictional continent. Later I discovered the historic meaning of maps as the Epsdorfer Map you mentioned in this newsletter. By now I am more willing to write about them and the men an women who made them in former times than draw my own.
The history of map making, the motivations behind them, is endlessly fascinating!
Yes for me as well, as if you couldn’t tell: https://tranithargan.substack.com/p/maps
Ha! Yes, you've clearly gone all-in there. :) Looks great.
Yes, I love a good map. In something like Wheel of Time I even flip back to them fairly regularly to check where things are at. And as others have said, I do draw maps, floor plans, schematics and so on when I’m writing, to keep things straight in my story, though these will probably not be included in final publication.
I'm the same: I often sketch maps for my own reference, but don't tend to include them for readers. It's a useful reference for me as a writer, though, and ensures I don't contradict myself geographically: physical space can be an active part of a plot, after all.
Maps are so good not only for pleasing the eye, but for having soooo much more context to alot of things. For example the distance beetween two regions or traveling routes.
In a large tale of warfare it can be useful, too. I've found myself a bit confused in the Witcher series about where everything is in relation to everything else, which is quite important due to warring nations.
Historical and real world novels don't always need to include maps because we can go and look at actual maps: a work of fiction set at the outbreak of World War 1, for example, won't need it's own maps but they're still readily available to a curious reader.
Totally agree
"Fictional maps tend to be more polarising." How so? 🤔 Like in the sense that fans tend to argue about how well it was made in accuracy to the world descriptions or in how it does not match their mental vision of how the world looks? Or something else entirely?
I meant primarily in terms of some people REALLY disliking fictional maps, finding them very silly, and sometimes actively avoiding a book *because* it has a map. You can see that full range of responses in these comments, in fact. :)
But yet - also as fuel for fan argument, but that's a slightly different angle I wasn't thinking about in my initial question.
Wow! I did not realize they were such a polarizing subject! 😲 I love fictional maps, and tend to draw versions of them when I'm writing a piece to help give myself a sense of scale.
The only thing I might wish was done differently when they come in a book is to include a poster or mini version, with the front of book map. That way, the reader can pin it up or create like a gallery of fictional maps to keep in a binder or something and still keep track of the story's journey.
Some fantasy stories take the reader on such a long journey, that I find myself getting lost along the way, even with the front map because I am not stopping to flip back to the front (hence the second map inclusion).
Oh, that's an interesting idea.
No to fictional maps.
When Tolkien included his map, it was a piece of eccentricity. Today it is a marker of genre and it screams "worldbuilding!" And I'm with Abercrombie on this. I don't like worldbuilding for worldbuilding's sake. And I don't like it in Tolkien any better than I like it in anyone else.
So I suppose if you are writing a worldbuilding book with a generic pro-forma story, yes, include a map, because that makes it easy for me to avoid your book. But if you are writing an original and engaging story with just enough worldbuilding to set the stage for the action, leave out the map or I will probably skip your book.
That's interesting, GM! Fortunately there's enough variety of books for everyone to find what they want - and avoid things they don't.
I'm genuinely shocked by this. Not liking a map is one thing, actively skipping a book because it has one is another. Figure you could just ignore the map!
Not saying you're wrong to have this attitude - it's yours and I'll respect it - but it's quite vehement!
As I said, its a genre signal -- like a girl in Spandex on the cover is a genre signal. Most books have multiple genre signals, and we all use them to select the books we read. Maps have just become one I have learned to be rather reliable for me.
Fair enough. 🙂