As someone who watched social media take birth and go on to take over everyone’s mind and attention, all the while never understanding its appeal and the mechanisms of communication (turns out nobody wanted to communicate after all but get your attention and your money) I loved reading your article. I can finally breathe out loud in relaxation. The SM madness is over.
Great job, Simon, at laying out the clear differences between the two approaches to authorship online (not content creators, thank you). Thank you as well for showing the silver lining with the new approach from Substack. I’m sure a lot of former ‘content creators’ from the outdated SM platforms will usr ChatGPT to storm into this place and ‘monetize’ it. But after reading your conclusion, I think that it won’t be as easy. For now I’m happy to be here. I really appreciate your newsletter. 💯
Well, there's a certain optimism in what I've written here that could yet prove to be completely unfounded. :D We'll see what happens. Also, I think AI is going to change things around in unpredictable and probably annoying ways.
But, yes, I hope we're heading into a different and better online infrastructure/culture/thing. Glad to have helped you relax, for today at least. :D
We have similar feelings about Wattpad. My contract expires this month and my book will leave the Paid program early next month. There’s no real return for what I’ve put in, and I’m not sure I even see the benefit for Wattpad with my book. If my writing fails, I’d rather it fail with the knowledge that I did everything I could to make it work. Not that it failed because a company buried it and I had no control over that.
That's the key thing, isn't it? None of these options are sure things, but at least if you self-publish, or use Substack, or even if you go with a traditional publisher, you're going to have a decent idea of what worked and didn't work. Twitter, Wattpad, Facebook - so much is out of your control, and even if anyone does come up with a decent strategy it's not going to work for long.
Wattpad represents the era of millions of people giving away their creations for free, blogs did the same. Content sloshing everywhere. No one sitting at their PC churning it out was paid, and no one knew their audience, unless you count the pseudonyms.
That said, lots of us are giving stuff away for free on Substack as well. I don't really paywall any of my content. It does feel a bit more strategic, though - and I do have paid subscribers, who are choosing to do so presumably to offer support rather than to purchase 'a product'.
Although the models still aren't fungible, to my mind. In one you have no leavers, in the other the levers are yours to operate as you think best for you.
Many stacks give previews, or access to a whole newsletter, but lock comments and other content. I don't know how successful that approach is as a growth strategy, or for attracting and retaining readers. Many others take the alternative road, those who can pay do, those who can't can still read and participate (which is not very American 😁). My gut tells me that this is more attractive, generous, and possibly builds more loyalty. Of course, if someone must pay to play, that can build loyalty too, or resentment.
Then there's the third path, newsletters that will always be free, a decision made by the writer.
I believe Wattpad, as old as it is, was meant to compete with the Chinese Webnovel model, which is even older. It would explain why it feels so similar in some ways, and why it's so unfair to writers. Their mistake though was to not follow the trend when other platforms like Royal Road or Tapas started popping up. They may have thought those others were in the wrong and wouldn't last, who knows, but now they've fallen behind so much it's ridiculous.
I've never used Wattpad myself, BTW. I heard of it tons over the years, but I never felt drawn to it. As a reader, I'm not really into serials, and reading on a screen has always bugged me. As a writer, the "write-for-free" aspect never appealed to me. I was tempted at one point, if only to build an audience, but then I figured what's the point if I don't own it? Not to mention, Wattpad readers tend to be the kind who don't want to pay for anything...
Not really the audience you should have if you plan to make a living out of writing.
Wattpad launched a Tapas competitor back in the day. It just failed. Their tech is crap and the development cycles are really long. But Wattpad is doing just fine because they've leveraged a relatively shitty platform into a media company that does books, film, and TV. That's where they make their money. You're right about the attitude toward writers, though. While there are (were) some nice people working there, Wattpad's policies toward writers are bizarre and brutal.
Oh wow, I forgot about their 'Tap' thing. I was amazed that they'd invested in a completely weird tangent, despite not developing the main platform for years. Such strange business decisions! Thanks for reminding me about that.
They've certainly done well with their Netflix adaptations and so on. Although I worry that they're going to have a gradual hollowing out of their foundation if they're not careful.
That hallowing out was my fear. I got the most traction with the Studios team. Still working with them in fact. But when they ask me why I don't write another story on WP, I tell them that the changes to the platform have throttled discovery and all the Stars stuff was weird & not very writer-friendly. The response to those comments is always the same: crickets.
I'd argue that Royal Road is a little bit different. While it's true you don't own your overall audience, readers there are more likely to pay if they like what they read, in which case they'll sign up to whatever platform you're using to handle payments--usually Patreon, but it can also be Substack, and then you own that part of your audience. And that's the part that matters anyway, since they're willing to buy your stuff ;)
Never said I managed it either LMAO. Just saying it's theoretically possible. Still working on it grmph. Will be trying a new approach in September, will see how that goes.
I don't think there's any harm in cross-posting to Wattpad (perhaps on a delayed release), but Substack feels like a much firmer foundation on which to build something. At the moment anyway. ;)
I looked a WattPad for a minute and decided Medium was a better path. Which it was for two years. Then it sabotaged itself by slashing pay by 90%. That’s when I discovered Substack.
I instantly saw its potential. Although there was zero discovery at the time. It has only improved over the past two and half years I have been on it. For the reasons you highlighted.
Who knows what will happen down the road, but Substack is the best option for most writers at the moment, in my opinion.
I really liked Medium in the early days. Though I could never quite see how fiction could work there. But it was good for sharing non-fiction essays Then it got more and more convoluted and fiddly - I noticed they're not trying to get their design back to the simple look and feel, but it's a bit late.
Medium only worked for short fiction. Serials didn’t work. Plus Medium ignored any creative writing. They only wanted essays. But there was a good creative writer community feel there for a while. That’s gone. It is a sad place now.
Substack is not ideal for serial fiction (yet. Hope, hope.) But I still think Substack is the best writing platform at the moment. Especially if you want to build an audience you can take with you. I don’t think destination writing platforms work anymore.
Great article and some great insights into Twitter and Facebook.
I started serialising my fiction on Wattpad around the same time I started on Substack. Also tried out Neovel, Royal Road, Scribblehub and Tapas around the same time. I found I had more readers on Royal Road and Scribblehub but almost zero engagement. Neovel was a graveyard. Tapas again showed little engagement. I've consistently updated Wattpad mostly due to the two readers who religiously engage as they're a great encouragement. Likelihood is I'll continue to cross-post there.
My experience with Twitter has actually been pretty positive in terms of leading subscribers to my Substack, but since Twitter started nerfing links to Substack I've seen that drop dead.
Notes, so far, has been the gamechanger although I'm still hoping for mor engagement as that's the more important thing. So I'm greatly encouraged by this post as it downplays the importance of "building an audience on social media" and more so points towards high quality interactions. I love that. I don't have time to beat the algorithm and build an audience. I would much rather write and engage with other writers / readers.
I've found the same. I've been cross-posting Triverse on Royal Road and Wattpad, with Royal Road gaining several thousand reads while Wattpad is a trickle. In fact, Triverse hasn't clicked on Wattpad at all compared to my previous books - I suspect because it's not YA and is a 'mature' novel, which doesn't really fit there. Royal Road doesn't have any engagement, though, and I've not managed to convince anyone to head over to Substack.
Agree on Notes, it's been very interesting to see the positive networking effects. It feels far more intentional.
Can you share how you're using Notes in a game-changing way? I'd be interested to know how Notes could increase reach and engagement and I'm sure others would too. It's just not immediately obvious to me beyond blatant "advertising" and self-promotion.
As Stephen says, it's not about self-promo but about interacting with people. The people you see on Notes are already in your general area of expertise/interest, so taking part in conversations will make you visible to people who are going to be interested in what you have to say.
Be interesting > get subscribers. I rarely actually mention my newsletter. If people like what I say in general, Notes makes it very easy for them to then jump on the newsletter.
Similarly, the 'My Subscribers' tab gives you an incredible snapshot into what some of your readers are doing and thinking, and you can hop into those discussions in a natural way, too, if you want. The setup produces lots of opportunities to then reach 1 or 2 levels beyond your core audience to brand new people.
I'm sure it's going to evolve, but at the moment it's really interesting.
Thanks, that's really helpful. I guess I'm the type of person that wouldn't be on any social media whatsoever if it wasn't to "ensnare" new victims! I mean... subscribers. I'm sure (I know for a fact) there are many others who feel (and have always felt) the same way about "promotional" socializing (to me it's all the same... just varying levels of subtlety). It's all a form of marketing in the end. But I'm going to give it one last go, see if I can hold back the grouch in me while I "interact" with normal people for once.
Well, since I’ve started engaging with Notes, I’ve seen my subscribers increase by 22%. That’s been less through self-promotion and more so through interacting with other writers, commenting on their Notes, seeing their Newsletters and interacting with those.
I am so tired of "interacting" with other writers. They're always marketing their shit to each other in the hope that somehow it increases their authentic reader base. I only want to interact with readers, specifically people that have never written much themselves. Obviously those people are out there. Very few on Substack I imagine. They browse all the usual online outlets and maybe some of the alternatives. Anything beyond that is too much effort. A superfan (1 in a 1000) will sub to your personal blog and support you... maybe. It's a little sad that we haven't really cracked this simple code yet. Writers need readers, specifically the ones that like what they write. There should be a simple way to connect without having to resort to the ususal "write to market" tactics.
I know the feeling and have often felt like I want to engage with readers rather than writers (and to be fair, most readers probably don’t know about Substack), but then I saw someone mention that most writers are also readers and it’s true. I’m not just a writer, I love to read as well. So every writer is a potential reader and it’s not like writers can’t be fans (or even super-fans) of another writer’s work.
Then there’s also the fact that connecting with other writers may also lead to discovery by their readers. Perhaps it’s an avenue that Substack can explore more, promoting Substack to readers not just writers?
Everything you said is true. I just remember the days when comic book writers would read their fan letters and respond to them in the next issue. I want that kind of engagement to be the norm again. Maybe an occasional private email to another writer. Whenever I've jumped onto these platforms ( for promotional reasons - I have no other reason to be there) I find multitude of writers all hawking their latest wares! It's just not of interest to me at all. I don't need their chit chat. And I found that hardly any are actually interested in reading your material just as I'm not really interested in reading theirs. Nor do I have the time. I can't even catch up with my own private reading list that is of actual interest to me. And probably never will. I just want readers. People who are not interested in the business side of it at all. And I guess they hang out on Amazon more than "book blogs" or "Substack" or even dedicated web novel sites like Wattpad.
Obviously, mingling in other (already popular) writer's comment sections is a growth strategy of sorts. Maybe picking a really popular Substack category for posts would help. It just seems there should be a "better" way to climb the ladder.
That type of interaction does still exist, both in comics specifically and also via other forms such as newsletters. Kieron Gillen and Brian K Vaughan both have active newsletters where they answer questions from readers.
I had a lot of this on Wattpad back in the day, when my books would get hundreds of comments. It was fantastic! It's been a challenge building up to that on my own newsletter, but it's getting there.
Agree that writers self-promoting at each other is a waste of time and quite tedious. On Substack I haven't really found that, though (and, in fact, quickly ignore anyone who is doing that). The discussion in this topic thread, for example, is less about people jumping in to self-promote and more about sharing their experiences and insights.
I did some time on Wattpad too. Long enough to realize they were not the audience I was looking for.
Like you, I have tried to find footing on SM, and found very little traction. It feels like going through the motions, and little else. So thank you for putting my thoughts and suspicions into words.
I believe Substack is poised to be better, and position writers better, than all the popular SM ever could.
Hopefully, I can find my audience here. I have plans to approach it with a "this is my job" mindset, and you've been an inspiration. Thank you.
Thanks Simon, i totally agree with all of this and I think you make a really good point - It wasnt just Wattpad that changed, it was the writers and what we were building for our careers. I've been on wattpad for a thousand years and in Paid since 2019. This past week I cancelled my contracts and am no longer posting on the platform/part of paid. I dont know exactly what comes next for my wattpad stories, or how fiction posting goes on substack, but I'm excited for whats next :)
Simon - I love this personal and social take on Wattpad v Substack. I think we’re all hoping for more ‘people focused’ not algorithm focused spaces to create and share, nurturing our creative selves and supporting each other.
Hearing about Wattpad this way is interesting because I know it from being in fanfiction communities, where it's not talked about fondly, generally considered bottom of the barrel when it comes to big fanfic sites. It's funny you brought up Harry Styles in particular because in college I had a class that brought up After, a Wattpad Harry Styles fanfic that became a big hit and got a movie with the fanfic part filed off.
So you talking about Wattpad in terms of original fiction is a whole new perspective on it for me. And on deeper thought being able to possibly have both fanfic and original fic in one place does sound nice. In theory I could do that on Substack but with paid subscriptions turned on it's a bit too up in the air legally.
For me what drew me to Substack was the idea of not needing to use social media. I hate the idea of mandatory author social media, but everyone I talked to in publishing stressed that you need a twitter three years ago. Never really believed in its effectiveness either honestly, but you do what you have to. I like forums better.
Oh, that is interesting indeed. I've never really seen it from that POV - I've never been into fanfic, and ignored the fanfic on Wattpad. The readership here on Substack is interesting, because there's two angles to it:
1. The 'Substack' readership, which is very writerly, and leaning towards non-fic (at the moment). Quiet hard to pin down, other than "people who like to read long form stuff and think a lot". They're heavily invested in the Substack ecosystem, eg the app and Notes.
2. Your own cultivated newsletter audience, who is there for your specific stuff. These people might not even realise that you're using Substack.
I’ve recently looked for a way to jump from private scribbling to writing online. I’ve been a consumer for 2 decades but couldn’t make the leap. I checked out Wattpad and all I could see was friction in their process and no sense of community.
I chose Substack hands-down. I write for me, but with a couple of clicks and a modicum of sense I can do 99% of what I wanted here. Good to subscribe , Simon.
That friction is a good point - from a purely UX standpoint, Substack is just pleasant to use and write on. That's not the case with most of the older fiction places.
(But if you back out my comments from Wattpad you're left with 12. 😉)
I certainly can't argue with any of this. I am still on Facebook, but that's about a small group of people who are family and actual friends (not "Facebook Friends").
Discord is... Well, it's chaotic and you know the last two servers I'm on.
Reddit is sitting on the level of hell between 4Chan and the topic of the next paragraph.
Twitter was theoretically about promoting my tutorial page and video business. My video business no longer exists (and is increasingly unlikely to be restarted), while my tutorial page... Had been in the middle of a revamp, until events which happened during the move made that a pointless project to finish. I'm taking some vague amusement in watching it self destruct.
Substack seems useful to those taking advantage of it, but my personal involvement seems likely to remain minimal.
Still, the level of excitement I had over use of the Internet as a forum for sharing ideas, information and creativity from about 1999 on has taken a big hit over the past couple of years, and I suspect my online presence will continue to slowly diminish.
Oddly enough, monetization and "building an audience" have never been a priority. I put out what I put out. If a single person read or viewed a thing, that was victory enough. That certain tutorials I created have a few thousand views is enough satisfaction. That a couple of kids who I trained are going on to have better skills and careers than I ever did is great. Glad to get them started. Just can't wait for whatever Lucasfilm projects Zach Alan is on to get close enough to release where he can tell me what shows they are.
Simon this is a great read. I found this by Googling "Wattpad vs Substack". I run an entertainment news site and we've recently launched our own Substack channel to engage with our community cause we've never liked the idea of allowing comments on our main site. So it's interesting how Substack and similar models have begun to attract users from different platforms and for slightly different reasons. For us, one of the driving forces was to rely less on advertising paying our costs on the main site, and allowing our paid Substack subscriptions to help absorb the blow. Online advertising, as you might know, is also undergoing a bit of a reckoning much like Social Media is, but for different reasons. Anyway...thank you for the insights on the differences and your experience with these platforms.
As someone who watched social media take birth and go on to take over everyone’s mind and attention, all the while never understanding its appeal and the mechanisms of communication (turns out nobody wanted to communicate after all but get your attention and your money) I loved reading your article. I can finally breathe out loud in relaxation. The SM madness is over.
Great job, Simon, at laying out the clear differences between the two approaches to authorship online (not content creators, thank you). Thank you as well for showing the silver lining with the new approach from Substack. I’m sure a lot of former ‘content creators’ from the outdated SM platforms will usr ChatGPT to storm into this place and ‘monetize’ it. But after reading your conclusion, I think that it won’t be as easy. For now I’m happy to be here. I really appreciate your newsletter. 💯
Well, there's a certain optimism in what I've written here that could yet prove to be completely unfounded. :D We'll see what happens. Also, I think AI is going to change things around in unpredictable and probably annoying ways.
But, yes, I hope we're heading into a different and better online infrastructure/culture/thing. Glad to have helped you relax, for today at least. :D
That's all we can ask, one more relaxing day. 🤣
We have similar feelings about Wattpad. My contract expires this month and my book will leave the Paid program early next month. There’s no real return for what I’ve put in, and I’m not sure I even see the benefit for Wattpad with my book. If my writing fails, I’d rather it fail with the knowledge that I did everything I could to make it work. Not that it failed because a company buried it and I had no control over that.
That's the key thing, isn't it? None of these options are sure things, but at least if you self-publish, or use Substack, or even if you go with a traditional publisher, you're going to have a decent idea of what worked and didn't work. Twitter, Wattpad, Facebook - so much is out of your control, and even if anyone does come up with a decent strategy it's not going to work for long.
Wattpad represents the era of millions of people giving away their creations for free, blogs did the same. Content sloshing everywhere. No one sitting at their PC churning it out was paid, and no one knew their audience, unless you count the pseudonyms.
It does all feel very anonymous, looking back.
That said, lots of us are giving stuff away for free on Substack as well. I don't really paywall any of my content. It does feel a bit more strategic, though - and I do have paid subscribers, who are choosing to do so presumably to offer support rather than to purchase 'a product'.
I can see why you'd frame it that way.
Although the models still aren't fungible, to my mind. In one you have no leavers, in the other the levers are yours to operate as you think best for you.
Many stacks give previews, or access to a whole newsletter, but lock comments and other content. I don't know how successful that approach is as a growth strategy, or for attracting and retaining readers. Many others take the alternative road, those who can pay do, those who can't can still read and participate (which is not very American 😁). My gut tells me that this is more attractive, generous, and possibly builds more loyalty. Of course, if someone must pay to play, that can build loyalty too, or resentment.
Then there's the third path, newsletters that will always be free, a decision made by the writer.
I believe Wattpad, as old as it is, was meant to compete with the Chinese Webnovel model, which is even older. It would explain why it feels so similar in some ways, and why it's so unfair to writers. Their mistake though was to not follow the trend when other platforms like Royal Road or Tapas started popping up. They may have thought those others were in the wrong and wouldn't last, who knows, but now they've fallen behind so much it's ridiculous.
I've never used Wattpad myself, BTW. I heard of it tons over the years, but I never felt drawn to it. As a reader, I'm not really into serials, and reading on a screen has always bugged me. As a writer, the "write-for-free" aspect never appealed to me. I was tempted at one point, if only to build an audience, but then I figured what's the point if I don't own it? Not to mention, Wattpad readers tend to be the kind who don't want to pay for anything...
Not really the audience you should have if you plan to make a living out of writing.
Yeah, it's not really 'building' an audience. It's borrowing someone else's audience, temporarily, and then having to give it back.
Wattpad launched a Tapas competitor back in the day. It just failed. Their tech is crap and the development cycles are really long. But Wattpad is doing just fine because they've leveraged a relatively shitty platform into a media company that does books, film, and TV. That's where they make their money. You're right about the attitude toward writers, though. While there are (were) some nice people working there, Wattpad's policies toward writers are bizarre and brutal.
Oh wow, I forgot about their 'Tap' thing. I was amazed that they'd invested in a completely weird tangent, despite not developing the main platform for years. Such strange business decisions! Thanks for reminding me about that.
They've certainly done well with their Netflix adaptations and so on. Although I worry that they're going to have a gradual hollowing out of their foundation if they're not careful.
That hallowing out was my fear. I got the most traction with the Studios team. Still working with them in fact. But when they ask me why I don't write another story on WP, I tell them that the changes to the platform have throttled discovery and all the Stars stuff was weird & not very writer-friendly. The response to those comments is always the same: crickets.
Same with RoyalRoad.
I'd argue that Royal Road is a little bit different. While it's true you don't own your overall audience, readers there are more likely to pay if they like what they read, in which case they'll sign up to whatever platform you're using to handle payments--usually Patreon, but it can also be Substack, and then you own that part of your audience. And that's the part that matters anyway, since they're willing to buy your stuff ;)
I've never managed to get Royal Road readers over to my Substack (to my knowledge). What's the trick, Alex? :)
Never said I managed it either LMAO. Just saying it's theoretically possible. Still working on it grmph. Will be trying a new approach in September, will see how that goes.
As someone who briefly hesitated between Wattpad and Substack, this is really insightful. Thank you!
I don't think there's any harm in cross-posting to Wattpad (perhaps on a delayed release), but Substack feels like a much firmer foundation on which to build something. At the moment anyway. ;)
I looked a WattPad for a minute and decided Medium was a better path. Which it was for two years. Then it sabotaged itself by slashing pay by 90%. That’s when I discovered Substack.
I instantly saw its potential. Although there was zero discovery at the time. It has only improved over the past two and half years I have been on it. For the reasons you highlighted.
Who knows what will happen down the road, but Substack is the best option for most writers at the moment, in my opinion.
I really liked Medium in the early days. Though I could never quite see how fiction could work there. But it was good for sharing non-fiction essays Then it got more and more convoluted and fiddly - I noticed they're not trying to get their design back to the simple look and feel, but it's a bit late.
Medium only worked for short fiction. Serials didn’t work. Plus Medium ignored any creative writing. They only wanted essays. But there was a good creative writer community feel there for a while. That’s gone. It is a sad place now.
Substack is not ideal for serial fiction (yet. Hope, hope.) But I still think Substack is the best writing platform at the moment. Especially if you want to build an audience you can take with you. I don’t think destination writing platforms work anymore.
Great article and some great insights into Twitter and Facebook.
I started serialising my fiction on Wattpad around the same time I started on Substack. Also tried out Neovel, Royal Road, Scribblehub and Tapas around the same time. I found I had more readers on Royal Road and Scribblehub but almost zero engagement. Neovel was a graveyard. Tapas again showed little engagement. I've consistently updated Wattpad mostly due to the two readers who religiously engage as they're a great encouragement. Likelihood is I'll continue to cross-post there.
My experience with Twitter has actually been pretty positive in terms of leading subscribers to my Substack, but since Twitter started nerfing links to Substack I've seen that drop dead.
Notes, so far, has been the gamechanger although I'm still hoping for mor engagement as that's the more important thing. So I'm greatly encouraged by this post as it downplays the importance of "building an audience on social media" and more so points towards high quality interactions. I love that. I don't have time to beat the algorithm and build an audience. I would much rather write and engage with other writers / readers.
I've found the same. I've been cross-posting Triverse on Royal Road and Wattpad, with Royal Road gaining several thousand reads while Wattpad is a trickle. In fact, Triverse hasn't clicked on Wattpad at all compared to my previous books - I suspect because it's not YA and is a 'mature' novel, which doesn't really fit there. Royal Road doesn't have any engagement, though, and I've not managed to convince anyone to head over to Substack.
Agree on Notes, it's been very interesting to see the positive networking effects. It feels far more intentional.
Can you share how you're using Notes in a game-changing way? I'd be interested to know how Notes could increase reach and engagement and I'm sure others would too. It's just not immediately obvious to me beyond blatant "advertising" and self-promotion.
As Stephen says, it's not about self-promo but about interacting with people. The people you see on Notes are already in your general area of expertise/interest, so taking part in conversations will make you visible to people who are going to be interested in what you have to say.
Be interesting > get subscribers. I rarely actually mention my newsletter. If people like what I say in general, Notes makes it very easy for them to then jump on the newsletter.
Similarly, the 'My Subscribers' tab gives you an incredible snapshot into what some of your readers are doing and thinking, and you can hop into those discussions in a natural way, too, if you want. The setup produces lots of opportunities to then reach 1 or 2 levels beyond your core audience to brand new people.
I'm sure it's going to evolve, but at the moment it's really interesting.
Thanks, that's really helpful. I guess I'm the type of person that wouldn't be on any social media whatsoever if it wasn't to "ensnare" new victims! I mean... subscribers. I'm sure (I know for a fact) there are many others who feel (and have always felt) the same way about "promotional" socializing (to me it's all the same... just varying levels of subtlety). It's all a form of marketing in the end. But I'm going to give it one last go, see if I can hold back the grouch in me while I "interact" with normal people for once.
Well, since I’ve started engaging with Notes, I’ve seen my subscribers increase by 22%. That’s been less through self-promotion and more so through interacting with other writers, commenting on their Notes, seeing their Newsletters and interacting with those.
I am so tired of "interacting" with other writers. They're always marketing their shit to each other in the hope that somehow it increases their authentic reader base. I only want to interact with readers, specifically people that have never written much themselves. Obviously those people are out there. Very few on Substack I imagine. They browse all the usual online outlets and maybe some of the alternatives. Anything beyond that is too much effort. A superfan (1 in a 1000) will sub to your personal blog and support you... maybe. It's a little sad that we haven't really cracked this simple code yet. Writers need readers, specifically the ones that like what they write. There should be a simple way to connect without having to resort to the ususal "write to market" tactics.
I know the feeling and have often felt like I want to engage with readers rather than writers (and to be fair, most readers probably don’t know about Substack), but then I saw someone mention that most writers are also readers and it’s true. I’m not just a writer, I love to read as well. So every writer is a potential reader and it’s not like writers can’t be fans (or even super-fans) of another writer’s work.
Then there’s also the fact that connecting with other writers may also lead to discovery by their readers. Perhaps it’s an avenue that Substack can explore more, promoting Substack to readers not just writers?
Everything you said is true. I just remember the days when comic book writers would read their fan letters and respond to them in the next issue. I want that kind of engagement to be the norm again. Maybe an occasional private email to another writer. Whenever I've jumped onto these platforms ( for promotional reasons - I have no other reason to be there) I find multitude of writers all hawking their latest wares! It's just not of interest to me at all. I don't need their chit chat. And I found that hardly any are actually interested in reading your material just as I'm not really interested in reading theirs. Nor do I have the time. I can't even catch up with my own private reading list that is of actual interest to me. And probably never will. I just want readers. People who are not interested in the business side of it at all. And I guess they hang out on Amazon more than "book blogs" or "Substack" or even dedicated web novel sites like Wattpad.
Obviously, mingling in other (already popular) writer's comment sections is a growth strategy of sorts. Maybe picking a really popular Substack category for posts would help. It just seems there should be a "better" way to climb the ladder.
That type of interaction does still exist, both in comics specifically and also via other forms such as newsletters. Kieron Gillen and Brian K Vaughan both have active newsletters where they answer questions from readers.
I had a lot of this on Wattpad back in the day, when my books would get hundreds of comments. It was fantastic! It's been a challenge building up to that on my own newsletter, but it's getting there.
Agree that writers self-promoting at each other is a waste of time and quite tedious. On Substack I haven't really found that, though (and, in fact, quickly ignore anyone who is doing that). The discussion in this topic thread, for example, is less about people jumping in to self-promote and more about sharing their experiences and insights.
I did some time on Wattpad too. Long enough to realize they were not the audience I was looking for.
Like you, I have tried to find footing on SM, and found very little traction. It feels like going through the motions, and little else. So thank you for putting my thoughts and suspicions into words.
I believe Substack is poised to be better, and position writers better, than all the popular SM ever could.
Hopefully, I can find my audience here. I have plans to approach it with a "this is my job" mindset, and you've been an inspiration. Thank you.
Thanks! Hope it goes well. Don't treat it so much like a job that it starts to feel like a slog, though. Keep it fun! :)
Thanks Simon, i totally agree with all of this and I think you make a really good point - It wasnt just Wattpad that changed, it was the writers and what we were building for our careers. I've been on wattpad for a thousand years and in Paid since 2019. This past week I cancelled my contracts and am no longer posting on the platform/part of paid. I dont know exactly what comes next for my wattpad stories, or how fiction posting goes on substack, but I'm excited for whats next :)
Interesting! Sounds like you're in a similar position to me, though you've been in paid for much longer.
I'm intrigued to find out if Substack are going to support fiction writers more going forward. Big potential there, if they did.
Simon - I love this personal and social take on Wattpad v Substack. I think we’re all hoping for more ‘people focused’ not algorithm focused spaces to create and share, nurturing our creative selves and supporting each other.
Thanks. It all feels very fragile at the moment, but it does seem like we've glimpsed another way of doing online writing and interactions.
Hearing about Wattpad this way is interesting because I know it from being in fanfiction communities, where it's not talked about fondly, generally considered bottom of the barrel when it comes to big fanfic sites. It's funny you brought up Harry Styles in particular because in college I had a class that brought up After, a Wattpad Harry Styles fanfic that became a big hit and got a movie with the fanfic part filed off.
So you talking about Wattpad in terms of original fiction is a whole new perspective on it for me. And on deeper thought being able to possibly have both fanfic and original fic in one place does sound nice. In theory I could do that on Substack but with paid subscriptions turned on it's a bit too up in the air legally.
For me what drew me to Substack was the idea of not needing to use social media. I hate the idea of mandatory author social media, but everyone I talked to in publishing stressed that you need a twitter three years ago. Never really believed in its effectiveness either honestly, but you do what you have to. I like forums better.
Oh, that is interesting indeed. I've never really seen it from that POV - I've never been into fanfic, and ignored the fanfic on Wattpad. The readership here on Substack is interesting, because there's two angles to it:
1. The 'Substack' readership, which is very writerly, and leaning towards non-fic (at the moment). Quiet hard to pin down, other than "people who like to read long form stuff and think a lot". They're heavily invested in the Substack ecosystem, eg the app and Notes.
2. Your own cultivated newsletter audience, who is there for your specific stuff. These people might not even realise that you're using Substack.
A great insight into your experience Simon, thanks for sharing!
I’ve recently looked for a way to jump from private scribbling to writing online. I’ve been a consumer for 2 decades but couldn’t make the leap. I checked out Wattpad and all I could see was friction in their process and no sense of community.
I chose Substack hands-down. I write for me, but with a couple of clicks and a modicum of sense I can do 99% of what I wanted here. Good to subscribe , Simon.
That friction is a good point - from a purely UX standpoint, Substack is just pleasant to use and write on. That's not the case with most of the older fiction places.
(But if you back out my comments from Wattpad you're left with 12. 😉)
I certainly can't argue with any of this. I am still on Facebook, but that's about a small group of people who are family and actual friends (not "Facebook Friends").
Discord is... Well, it's chaotic and you know the last two servers I'm on.
Reddit is sitting on the level of hell between 4Chan and the topic of the next paragraph.
Twitter was theoretically about promoting my tutorial page and video business. My video business no longer exists (and is increasingly unlikely to be restarted), while my tutorial page... Had been in the middle of a revamp, until events which happened during the move made that a pointless project to finish. I'm taking some vague amusement in watching it self destruct.
Substack seems useful to those taking advantage of it, but my personal involvement seems likely to remain minimal.
Still, the level of excitement I had over use of the Internet as a forum for sharing ideas, information and creativity from about 1999 on has taken a big hit over the past couple of years, and I suspect my online presence will continue to slowly diminish.
Your mileage may vary.
Oddly enough, monetization and "building an audience" have never been a priority. I put out what I put out. If a single person read or viewed a thing, that was victory enough. That certain tutorials I created have a few thousand views is enough satisfaction. That a couple of kids who I trained are going on to have better skills and careers than I ever did is great. Glad to get them started. Just can't wait for whatever Lucasfilm projects Zach Alan is on to get close enough to release where he can tell me what shows they are.
100%. What a wonderful feeling.
Thank you for such a beautiful piece of lecture and time saving attempt to go towards WP.
Was a pleasure to read you, kind sir!
I am still not completely satisfied with SS tho.
Second guessing things. Still researching ethical blogging/open alternatives.
I don't care for readership since I make free content anyway and people who really want to - choose to support me because they specifically care to.
Anyways...
GLHF <3
Simon this is a great read. I found this by Googling "Wattpad vs Substack". I run an entertainment news site and we've recently launched our own Substack channel to engage with our community cause we've never liked the idea of allowing comments on our main site. So it's interesting how Substack and similar models have begun to attract users from different platforms and for slightly different reasons. For us, one of the driving forces was to rely less on advertising paying our costs on the main site, and allowing our paid Substack subscriptions to help absorb the blow. Online advertising, as you might know, is also undergoing a bit of a reckoning much like Social Media is, but for different reasons. Anyway...thank you for the insights on the differences and your experience with these platforms.
Subscriptions do seem like a safer way to go than advertising at the moment - or more predictable, at least. Thanks for reading, Jacek!