Nice of Miller to infodump on Holland to make him feel important and trusted rather than realize he's just another minor tool to be used and discarded. Too bad Holland didn't catch that.
This reader appreciates the author's self-commentary in this chapter's flashback summary. "What? Metaphors don't always have to be subtle" made me chuckle.
Simon, if you're attending Suw Charman-Anderson's next Grist on creating personalities, just a reminder the matrix you're using is a direct derivation of Meyer-Briggs, hopefully tuned to be a better list for fiction, without the baggage of being bad psychiatry. I keep trying to expand it to ten (no real reason other than its root as a TTRPG tool is for a system using d10s, so I'm aiming for symmetry with most of my tables and lists being tens), but can't come up with new pairings that don't just break down as being a subset of an existing pair. I may have just gotten it right the first time with the seven.
I haven't done any of Suw's Grist sessions. I need to check them out!
And yes, generally Miller know which levers to pull and buttons to push. He's been the PR front of the SDC for years: he's more of a marketing exec than a police officer.
Meyer-Briggs isn't a psychiatric tool, nor a psychological tool. Darned clever design and marketing by a mother and daughter, but there's no relationship with the tool and mental health clinicians.
Attached below is a study reproduced on the US National Institute for Health site, reproduced from Frontiers of Psychology. Said article's citations include other articles and studies from peer-reviewed Psychology and Psychiatry journals. The point is is, while the majority of mental health professionals would ignore Myers-Briggs active studies have been done - and recently, since the link is a 2023 article - while non mental health professionals, in the form of "Life Coaches" and "Leadership Coaches" regard the silly thing as a viable tool.
I, personally, have applied at companies which required taking the damned thing as part of the application process.
It's used - wrongly - by people who - still wrongly - feel it's valid.
Kinda like how US medical insurance companies use BMI - a statistical study of 19th Century of Belgians - to determine levels of obesity specifically because it skews everyone towards fat allowing them to charge more for "high risk" patients. Again, I use my own experience here.
This is my 2021 physical. Since then I've moved to Ireland, while this was my penultimate US physical and the last one determining medical insurance rates before I cancelled insurance to leave the country.
I'm 6ft tall (182cm) and weighed 211 lbs (95.7 kg). The BMI chart thinks, at my height, I should weigh 180 lbs/81.7 kg to be "healthy". I had a lean mass test. My lean mass was 192 lbs/87 kg. The BMI chart has me as "obese." To be "Healthy" on the BMI chart I need to be at 0% body fat AND lose another 11 lbs/5 kg. Body fat percentage is a better indicator and my Doctor wants me between 5-10% body fat. That's about 200-208 lbs. BMI says I'm obese. In reality, I could stand to lose about 5-10 lbs.
Now, d'ya wanna guess if the insurance company listened to the actual tests determining I could stand to lose a few pounds, or the bullshit chart saying I'm obese when they raised my rate. It's a US insurance company. They raised my rates according to being "high risk" from obesity.
Said company ignores the fact I'm a self-reported smoker. Always found that amusing, as that's the worst thing I do for my health.
Anyways, to bring this full circle, despite Myers-Briggs being a bad derivation of flawed work from Carl Jung, it's still at least studied by mental health professionals, and used by US companies and financial institutions (some use a Meyers-Briggs test as part of a credit assessment, of all things) to skew results the way the company wants to interpret them. In the same way some institutions rely on the medically discredited BMI score to make real world determinations.
I'm well aware that Myers-Briggs had a long sticking power in business, but sheesh, that was decades ago. It's almost funny that it's still popular in some countries. I don't think it has wide use in Australia, these days. Possibly some multinationals still use it for recruitment.
It's almost disturbing that the tool is the basis of clinical studies, because it's the equivalent of using astrology signs. However, if MB continues to be widely used in the US, then it's probably good if people are doing studies to test the validity of the tool, since it's not a good predictor of anything, let alone work performance.
Yeah, BMI still hasn't been dropped by the medical profession, despite being discredited last century!! This has little affect for most people, it's more an American problem with insurance. In Australia we have community risk, and no one needs to take a physical. Maybe if someone was taking out life insurance worth millions, then they'd have to have a physical.
A lot of things considered normal by Americans just don't apply in any other country, because it's not actually normal.
"A lot of things considered normal by Americans just don't apply in any other country, because it's not actually normal."
True that. (I'm looking at you, Imperial Measurements).
There are reasons we moved to Ireland.
Tangential amusing note: When my wife, Dad and I visited Australia and New Zealand, Australians kept assuming we were Canadian, not from the US. I finally jokingly asked, "Why do you Aussies keep assuming we're Canadian," to which the response was, "You're really nice."
In times like these, it's advisable to find a relaxing diversion which allows your mind to reset. I like Simons tales a lot. Hoping my own tales will do the same for others.
Interesting you mentioned listening to music when you’re writing, Simon. I used to do the same but now have to write in silence. I found what was playing bled into the story. So, heavy metal or rock and things on the page would be aggressive and dramatic, or with opera there would more dialogue and contemplation. I dunno 🤷♂️
Now, randomly, when I write it’s like there’s white noise in my ears and I can’t hear anything else anyway. I guess that’s being in the zone as they say
Anyway, enough of my own psychoanalysis, great chapter 👍🏼😁
Was wondering when that tape would resurface.
Plans are indeed afoot.
Fucking Miller and Holland.
Nice of Miller to infodump on Holland to make him feel important and trusted rather than realize he's just another minor tool to be used and discarded. Too bad Holland didn't catch that.
This reader appreciates the author's self-commentary in this chapter's flashback summary. "What? Metaphors don't always have to be subtle" made me chuckle.
Simon, if you're attending Suw Charman-Anderson's next Grist on creating personalities, just a reminder the matrix you're using is a direct derivation of Meyer-Briggs, hopefully tuned to be a better list for fiction, without the baggage of being bad psychiatry. I keep trying to expand it to ten (no real reason other than its root as a TTRPG tool is for a system using d10s, so I'm aiming for symmetry with most of my tables and lists being tens), but can't come up with new pairings that don't just break down as being a subset of an existing pair. I may have just gotten it right the first time with the seven.
I haven't done any of Suw's Grist sessions. I need to check them out!
And yes, generally Miller know which levers to pull and buttons to push. He's been the PR front of the SDC for years: he's more of a marketing exec than a police officer.
Meyer-Briggs isn't a psychiatric tool, nor a psychological tool. Darned clever design and marketing by a mother and daughter, but there's no relationship with the tool and mental health clinicians.
Hence why it's bad psychiatry.
Attached below is a study reproduced on the US National Institute for Health site, reproduced from Frontiers of Psychology. Said article's citations include other articles and studies from peer-reviewed Psychology and Psychiatry journals. The point is is, while the majority of mental health professionals would ignore Myers-Briggs active studies have been done - and recently, since the link is a 2023 article - while non mental health professionals, in the form of "Life Coaches" and "Leadership Coaches" regard the silly thing as a viable tool.
I, personally, have applied at companies which required taking the damned thing as part of the application process.
It's used - wrongly - by people who - still wrongly - feel it's valid.
Kinda like how US medical insurance companies use BMI - a statistical study of 19th Century of Belgians - to determine levels of obesity specifically because it skews everyone towards fat allowing them to charge more for "high risk" patients. Again, I use my own experience here.
This is my 2021 physical. Since then I've moved to Ireland, while this was my penultimate US physical and the last one determining medical insurance rates before I cancelled insurance to leave the country.
I'm 6ft tall (182cm) and weighed 211 lbs (95.7 kg). The BMI chart thinks, at my height, I should weigh 180 lbs/81.7 kg to be "healthy". I had a lean mass test. My lean mass was 192 lbs/87 kg. The BMI chart has me as "obese." To be "Healthy" on the BMI chart I need to be at 0% body fat AND lose another 11 lbs/5 kg. Body fat percentage is a better indicator and my Doctor wants me between 5-10% body fat. That's about 200-208 lbs. BMI says I'm obese. In reality, I could stand to lose about 5-10 lbs.
Now, d'ya wanna guess if the insurance company listened to the actual tests determining I could stand to lose a few pounds, or the bullshit chart saying I'm obese when they raised my rate. It's a US insurance company. They raised my rates according to being "high risk" from obesity.
Said company ignores the fact I'm a self-reported smoker. Always found that amusing, as that's the worst thing I do for my health.
Anyways, to bring this full circle, despite Myers-Briggs being a bad derivation of flawed work from Carl Jung, it's still at least studied by mental health professionals, and used by US companies and financial institutions (some use a Meyers-Briggs test as part of a credit assessment, of all things) to skew results the way the company wants to interpret them. In the same way some institutions rely on the medically discredited BMI score to make real world determinations.
Thus, pseudoscience spreads.
Link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10017728/
I'm well aware that Myers-Briggs had a long sticking power in business, but sheesh, that was decades ago. It's almost funny that it's still popular in some countries. I don't think it has wide use in Australia, these days. Possibly some multinationals still use it for recruitment.
It's almost disturbing that the tool is the basis of clinical studies, because it's the equivalent of using astrology signs. However, if MB continues to be widely used in the US, then it's probably good if people are doing studies to test the validity of the tool, since it's not a good predictor of anything, let alone work performance.
Yeah, BMI still hasn't been dropped by the medical profession, despite being discredited last century!! This has little affect for most people, it's more an American problem with insurance. In Australia we have community risk, and no one needs to take a physical. Maybe if someone was taking out life insurance worth millions, then they'd have to have a physical.
A lot of things considered normal by Americans just don't apply in any other country, because it's not actually normal.
"A lot of things considered normal by Americans just don't apply in any other country, because it's not actually normal."
True that. (I'm looking at you, Imperial Measurements).
There are reasons we moved to Ireland.
Tangential amusing note: When my wife, Dad and I visited Australia and New Zealand, Australians kept assuming we were Canadian, not from the US. I finally jokingly asked, "Why do you Aussies keep assuming we're Canadian," to which the response was, "You're really nice."
Fair enough. I'll take it.
Or maybe you understood our jokes, and irony? 😁
Thanks for the mention, Simon! Glad you enjoyed that post!
In times like these, it's advisable to find a relaxing diversion which allows your mind to reset. I like Simons tales a lot. Hoping my own tales will do the same for others.
Interesting you mentioned listening to music when you’re writing, Simon. I used to do the same but now have to write in silence. I found what was playing bled into the story. So, heavy metal or rock and things on the page would be aggressive and dramatic, or with opera there would more dialogue and contemplation. I dunno 🤷♂️
Now, randomly, when I write it’s like there’s white noise in my ears and I can’t hear anything else anyway. I guess that’s being in the zone as they say
Anyway, enough of my own psychoanalysis, great chapter 👍🏼😁