Sheridan gives one hell of a good speech at the end of the episode. Shame Bruce Boxlightner had to follow after Peter Jurassik and Andreas Katsulas in that council scene. Boxlightner is a reliably solid actor, but Jurassik and Katsulas are absolutely brilliant.
Boy, I hope Refa has realized Londo is NOT HAPPY with him, and doesn't do anything else to piss Londo off.
Good on Delenn IMMEDIATELY backing Sheridan in the council chamber and bringing G'Kar under Minbari protection.
Oh, look, after defeating the Narn the Centauri turn their eyes towards other (non-aligned) worlds, while also stating they have no expansionist goals. Good thing nothing like that could never happen in 21st century Europe...
Hey, Garibaldi is in the meeting with Delenn, Kosh and the Rangers - which poses a question... We know Garibaldi knows about the Rangers from a message sent by Sheridan. We know Garibaldi was told by the Ranger courier "just one other" on B5 knows about the Rangers. So... Did Garibaldi figure out it wars Delenn some time ago? Have Delenn and Garibaldi had little meetings off screen? Or did Delenn reveal herself to Garibaldi an hour before the meeting with Sheridan?
At this point four of five of the "major powers" are compromised. Earth has pulled back to an "Earth First" standing, the Minbari are internally fractured, have broken with a millennium of tradition, and are skeptical of Valen's prophecies, the Centauri are over extending themselves in conquest, and the Narn are defeated. Anyone who could work against the Shadows has been diverted. Wonder what the Vorlons are up to?
Londo's little cough in the council chambers is probably foreshadowing... There's only one other time we've seen him cough like that...
Nice moment for Franklin. I don't think he's motivated by politics, just his desire to treat, not harm. I think he'd have given a similar warning to Londo if the Narn/Centauri positions were reversed. Franklin just doesn't want anyone to suffer.
Not much for Ivanova this week. She just gets to deliver some bad news. But Joshua Cox as Lt. Corwin is his reliable self. He stands out, even when his scene is, "Look there's an energy spike on the planet below!" Someday, he should get a little mini arc of his own, so he can have just a little meat for his role. He's, honestly, a better actor than required for most of Corwins's scenes, but, hey! He's building his reel and getting paid, and, later in his career, he'll get to lead a show.
Feel like I'm forgetting something, but I was interrupted mid type to go shopping. If it comes to me there will be a non spoiler (3).
Let's give it up for B5 Director of Photography John Flynn III, also stepping into the director's chair for the episode.
Simon has summed up the themes of the episode more eloquently than I could. But let's add the Narn injuring a Shadow Cruiser to the "moments of hope." Yes, the entire Narn fleet is destroyed, yes, we've learned that Shadows can disrupt jump points, meaning you can't even effectively run away from them. Yes, the Shadow fighters blaze through the energy mines without even slowing down, yes, the Shadow cruisers can cut through a Narn battle cruiser like a hot knife through butter, but, there's that one injury to a Shadow cruiser. The Shadows are terrifying and powerful, but they are NOT invulnerable. Even at this low point, that small glimmer of hope is planted.
I believe Mojo Lebowitz oversaw the Gorash 7 battle, and did so superlatively.
I think John Teska was in charge of the bombardment of Narn.
The bombardment is beautifully staged, using that creative series of quick cuts as asteroids whizz past camera to cut closer and closer to the ship carrying Londo. Those cuts also imply a time lapse, which I'll come back to in a second. First we'll note this episode establishes Centauri technology is superior to Earth and Narn - Centauri vessels have artifical gravity fields, while Earth and Narn vessels do not. The only other species established to have artifical gravity are the Minbari. Next... Here's where the time lapse comes in: at the beginning of the sequence we are shown Narn as rocks impact. Note we can NOT see the surface of the world, only the roiling particulates in the atmosphere. At the end of the sequence, as we hold on Londo with Narn reflected in the window we see more rocks impact on Narn... Or, rather, we don't. The rocks just fade out on the dark side of the planet - WE CAN NO LONGER SEE THE IMPACTS. That is a small detail I noted on first airing, and, to me it's utterly terrifying. See, jump points, energy mines, magic beams weapons, et.al. are all "magic tech." It's not clearly defined, although powerful, but it's also fiction. Mass drivers propel rocks into a planet, and meteor impacts are something very real, and for which we have scale of effect visible any night - just look at the moon to see what a big rock slamming into another big rock can do. Being unable to see the final impacts of Centauri mass driven rocks means so much crap has been blown into the atmosphere it's obscuring these (probably) multi megaton class explosions.
And that scared the shit out of me. Even more so than the Shadows - for even the Shadows have attacked surgically, with precision, without additional waste. The Shadows may destroy colonies, or even exterminate races (bye, Markab), but only the Centauri have been shown to indulge in such wanton destruction. The Markab world exists. It's resources are intact, as is most of its ecology. Narn got hit so hard, the series will never be able to properly expound on how many species of plant and animal went extinct on Narn. Hell, Narn's CONTINENTS probably have new shapes now.
And trust that asshole, Senator Quantrell (from "And Now for a Word") to make a joke about Narn being bombed into the stone age.
How bad is the Centauri action? EVEN THE VORLONS LODGED A FORMAL COMPLAINT! Kosh doesn't even bother to show up at most meetings, and the Vorlon government has only taken two actions prior - sending a fleet to Babylon 5 in the pilot, and blowing up Deathwalker.
The shots of Londo in the Centauri cruiser: the set was a plain elevated platform with black backing, but the small set was set on an elevated platform, raised about 30 feet over the main sets. Peter Jurassik had to remain atop that platform, for hours, while the set was lit, cameras were placed, and the sequence shot. Jurassik has said he used this time of isolation to really get into Londo's head space during the assault. I think it paid off.
W. Morgan Sheppard returns after his turn as the insane Soul Hunter to portray the doomed G'Sten. Sheppard was on the short list for the role of G'Kar, so here we get a small glimpse of a "might have been." G'Sten should have listened to his nephew.
The riot in the Zocalo is one of the better mass fight scenes in the series. Flynn keeps his camera mostly focused on the bar, and the few Narn and Centauri fighting around it. A couple of quick cutaways to someone thrown through a food cart, and someone else thrown through a store window into a counter very efficiently shows that the riot is spreading. After that, we just need to see B5 security in full armor and carrying their big guns to let the audience know it was really bad.
And that one Centauri doing that sweet sweeping jump kick into a Narn's face is a great stunt.
Louis Turine was recovering from a heart attack, and was unable to reprise his role as Draal. John Shuck comes in, doing his best to channel BRIAN BLESSED. I'll flat out state that Louis Turine will return to Babylon 5 in another role. Turine's take on Draal was so quietly dignified I never actually bought Shuck as playing a younger version of the same man.
"Zathras? ZATHRAS! Hmmph. Never around when you need him..." Hey! We know that name! So, Zathras is hanging out on Epsilon 3, is he? And Zathras is involved with someone who has time travel ("Babylon Squared"). We may have learned something very important with one throwaway line in an episode so dense Simon didn't even mention it!
When the creator of the series has a five year plan you must pay attention to these things.
Oh, damn! Can't believe I forgot to mention the Zathras line!! As you say, there's so much going on here it's easy to miss details, especially when it's a single line. But actually, plot-wise, that one line about Zathras is probably the most important moment of the entire episode, if you start thinking about what it might mean. I think I forgot to mention it due to it being a repeat viewing, but on first viewing that was a proper "WAITAMINUTE!!!" moment.
Agreed, Sheppard is great as G'Sten. I love that you don't realise they are related until the very end of the scene. And also, even on first viewing, there's a definite sense of impending doom. Even before we go to Refa's scheming on Centauri Prime, it already feels like the Narn are unlikely to pull it off.
We also get that great scene with Franklin and G'Kar: Franklin again doing whatever he can to do the right thing at the right time (which is why I tend to remove 'The Long Night' from my memory - his behaviour there is really bizarre, even taking into consideration that this was a 90s show and they weren't as enlightened as us lot!).
As grim and inappropriate as Quantrell's quoted line is.....he's not wrong, is he? It's insensitive, and has a certain admiration of the military achievement baked into it, but he's kind of right in his assessment of the impact and damage. In fact, that grudging admiration reminds me of the reaction to recent real world events involving exploding pagers: a horrible situation, but which military commentators couldn't help themselves from talking about excitedly.
Interesting point about Centauri having artificial gravity. I hadn't quite clocked that. Presumably that would have made the deployment of mass drivers easier, as well? Or more powerful.
Have you watched The Expanse? That has an excellent exploration of the effects of mass drivers.
The Expanse is the only show which, IMHO, challenges B5 for best scl fi show, period. Shame the show stopped at book 6, but the final three are decades later, so, maybe they can get the original cast together in another 10 years and finish it off. The novels have a hell of an ending. You'll appreciate when you get there in your read...
Of course, everything I said about Zathras above was taken only from what has been presented in the series up to this point. Yes, long term, that throwaway line may be one of the most important in the episode for future developments, but the rest of what I have to say on the topic is in Spoilers.
Quantrel isn't wrong with what he said, but he definitely phrased it in the worst possible taste. I'm sure he's a Clarke supporter. Let's give it up for JMS for giving us enough to make some guesses about the man based on a couple of scenes and one quote.
I do enjoy the Sci-Fi trope of the non-human learning to swear (ineffectively). Delenn here and Spock in Star Trek IV. I think they did that gag with Kryten in Red Dwarf as well.
Never can decide if the gag works better with "we can't REALLY swear" broadcast restrictions or not. Would it be funnier if Delenn could drop a full "Abso-fucking-loutely, goddammit?"
That injured Shadow ship... The most creepy thing about a damaged Shadow Cruiser didn't happen in this episode - I assume the Narn lasers cauterized the wound - but will happen in later battles where injured Shadow ships BLEED OUT and shrivel. We know Shadow vessels use sentient species as processing cores, but the ships themselves are also alive. Might they have personalities? Kosh's ship does (it sings), and Shadows "phasing" into hyperspace rather than opening jump points (like Vorlons) hints Shadow tech may be more advanced than Vorlon tech. Are Shadow ships themselves, victims of their masters? I've never asked that question before... Now I imagine a Shadow ship and it's pilot core screaming and crying at each other.
Let's face it, once we get into season 4 JMS is going to play some relativistic morality cards. The Shadows, while the main antagonist of most of the series, aren't, ultimately, "pure evil." They genuinely feel starting wars and blowing up half the galaxy every few centuries is for the greater good of the survivors. And it's in the last two episodes of season 2 the seeds are laid showing the Vorlons aren't "good." Oh, yes, after JACK THE RIPPER, and YOU ALL SEE US AS ANGELS, I was quite leery of the Vorlons. I wasn't that surprised when they pulled out planet killers in s4.
Zathras and the Great Machine - is actually subplot material which may have been hurt by Michael O'Hare leaving the show. Here, the Great Machine is introduced, and Draal places its resources at Sheridan's disposal. Problem is, it only comes into play thruce - Ivanova gets the video clip of Clarke talking to Morden, and, of course, "War Without End." Otherwise, there are even later episodes - I think "Severed Dreams" - where we get, "Ask Draal for help?" "No, I want to keep him as our ace in the hole." How does Draal help in "Severed Dreams?" He uses holograms while Sheridan makes a public service announcement - and I'm damn sure B5 already had a perfectly good PA system. This means B5 is next to a very powerful complex with a frigging TIME MACHINE, and advanced weaponry, and a willing ally which just kind of sits there being ignored for three seasons.
I suspect in the original plan the Great Machine wasn't intended to come into play until season 5, with "War Without End" as the finale. Then JMS pulled that trigger a little early and realized he'd kinda goofed up, but, if he just didn't talk about it, we'd not think about it too much.
Huh. Don't think I have anything to add to this section. Simon pretty much hit everything else.
Non Spoiler (2)
Sheridan gives one hell of a good speech at the end of the episode. Shame Bruce Boxlightner had to follow after Peter Jurassik and Andreas Katsulas in that council scene. Boxlightner is a reliably solid actor, but Jurassik and Katsulas are absolutely brilliant.
Boy, I hope Refa has realized Londo is NOT HAPPY with him, and doesn't do anything else to piss Londo off.
Good on Delenn IMMEDIATELY backing Sheridan in the council chamber and bringing G'Kar under Minbari protection.
Oh, look, after defeating the Narn the Centauri turn their eyes towards other (non-aligned) worlds, while also stating they have no expansionist goals. Good thing nothing like that could never happen in 21st century Europe...
Hey, Garibaldi is in the meeting with Delenn, Kosh and the Rangers - which poses a question... We know Garibaldi knows about the Rangers from a message sent by Sheridan. We know Garibaldi was told by the Ranger courier "just one other" on B5 knows about the Rangers. So... Did Garibaldi figure out it wars Delenn some time ago? Have Delenn and Garibaldi had little meetings off screen? Or did Delenn reveal herself to Garibaldi an hour before the meeting with Sheridan?
At this point four of five of the "major powers" are compromised. Earth has pulled back to an "Earth First" standing, the Minbari are internally fractured, have broken with a millennium of tradition, and are skeptical of Valen's prophecies, the Centauri are over extending themselves in conquest, and the Narn are defeated. Anyone who could work against the Shadows has been diverted. Wonder what the Vorlons are up to?
Londo's little cough in the council chambers is probably foreshadowing... There's only one other time we've seen him cough like that...
Nice moment for Franklin. I don't think he's motivated by politics, just his desire to treat, not harm. I think he'd have given a similar warning to Londo if the Narn/Centauri positions were reversed. Franklin just doesn't want anyone to suffer.
Not much for Ivanova this week. She just gets to deliver some bad news. But Joshua Cox as Lt. Corwin is his reliable self. He stands out, even when his scene is, "Look there's an energy spike on the planet below!" Someday, he should get a little mini arc of his own, so he can have just a little meat for his role. He's, honestly, a better actor than required for most of Corwins's scenes, but, hey! He's building his reel and getting paid, and, later in his career, he'll get to lead a show.
Feel like I'm forgetting something, but I was interrupted mid type to go shopping. If it comes to me there will be a non spoiler (3).
Non Spoiler (1)
Let's give it up for B5 Director of Photography John Flynn III, also stepping into the director's chair for the episode.
Simon has summed up the themes of the episode more eloquently than I could. But let's add the Narn injuring a Shadow Cruiser to the "moments of hope." Yes, the entire Narn fleet is destroyed, yes, we've learned that Shadows can disrupt jump points, meaning you can't even effectively run away from them. Yes, the Shadow fighters blaze through the energy mines without even slowing down, yes, the Shadow cruisers can cut through a Narn battle cruiser like a hot knife through butter, but, there's that one injury to a Shadow cruiser. The Shadows are terrifying and powerful, but they are NOT invulnerable. Even at this low point, that small glimmer of hope is planted.
I believe Mojo Lebowitz oversaw the Gorash 7 battle, and did so superlatively.
I think John Teska was in charge of the bombardment of Narn.
The bombardment is beautifully staged, using that creative series of quick cuts as asteroids whizz past camera to cut closer and closer to the ship carrying Londo. Those cuts also imply a time lapse, which I'll come back to in a second. First we'll note this episode establishes Centauri technology is superior to Earth and Narn - Centauri vessels have artifical gravity fields, while Earth and Narn vessels do not. The only other species established to have artifical gravity are the Minbari. Next... Here's where the time lapse comes in: at the beginning of the sequence we are shown Narn as rocks impact. Note we can NOT see the surface of the world, only the roiling particulates in the atmosphere. At the end of the sequence, as we hold on Londo with Narn reflected in the window we see more rocks impact on Narn... Or, rather, we don't. The rocks just fade out on the dark side of the planet - WE CAN NO LONGER SEE THE IMPACTS. That is a small detail I noted on first airing, and, to me it's utterly terrifying. See, jump points, energy mines, magic beams weapons, et.al. are all "magic tech." It's not clearly defined, although powerful, but it's also fiction. Mass drivers propel rocks into a planet, and meteor impacts are something very real, and for which we have scale of effect visible any night - just look at the moon to see what a big rock slamming into another big rock can do. Being unable to see the final impacts of Centauri mass driven rocks means so much crap has been blown into the atmosphere it's obscuring these (probably) multi megaton class explosions.
And that scared the shit out of me. Even more so than the Shadows - for even the Shadows have attacked surgically, with precision, without additional waste. The Shadows may destroy colonies, or even exterminate races (bye, Markab), but only the Centauri have been shown to indulge in such wanton destruction. The Markab world exists. It's resources are intact, as is most of its ecology. Narn got hit so hard, the series will never be able to properly expound on how many species of plant and animal went extinct on Narn. Hell, Narn's CONTINENTS probably have new shapes now.
And trust that asshole, Senator Quantrell (from "And Now for a Word") to make a joke about Narn being bombed into the stone age.
How bad is the Centauri action? EVEN THE VORLONS LODGED A FORMAL COMPLAINT! Kosh doesn't even bother to show up at most meetings, and the Vorlon government has only taken two actions prior - sending a fleet to Babylon 5 in the pilot, and blowing up Deathwalker.
The shots of Londo in the Centauri cruiser: the set was a plain elevated platform with black backing, but the small set was set on an elevated platform, raised about 30 feet over the main sets. Peter Jurassik had to remain atop that platform, for hours, while the set was lit, cameras were placed, and the sequence shot. Jurassik has said he used this time of isolation to really get into Londo's head space during the assault. I think it paid off.
W. Morgan Sheppard returns after his turn as the insane Soul Hunter to portray the doomed G'Sten. Sheppard was on the short list for the role of G'Kar, so here we get a small glimpse of a "might have been." G'Sten should have listened to his nephew.
The riot in the Zocalo is one of the better mass fight scenes in the series. Flynn keeps his camera mostly focused on the bar, and the few Narn and Centauri fighting around it. A couple of quick cutaways to someone thrown through a food cart, and someone else thrown through a store window into a counter very efficiently shows that the riot is spreading. After that, we just need to see B5 security in full armor and carrying their big guns to let the audience know it was really bad.
And that one Centauri doing that sweet sweeping jump kick into a Narn's face is a great stunt.
Louis Turine was recovering from a heart attack, and was unable to reprise his role as Draal. John Shuck comes in, doing his best to channel BRIAN BLESSED. I'll flat out state that Louis Turine will return to Babylon 5 in another role. Turine's take on Draal was so quietly dignified I never actually bought Shuck as playing a younger version of the same man.
"Zathras? ZATHRAS! Hmmph. Never around when you need him..." Hey! We know that name! So, Zathras is hanging out on Epsilon 3, is he? And Zathras is involved with someone who has time travel ("Babylon Squared"). We may have learned something very important with one throwaway line in an episode so dense Simon didn't even mention it!
When the creator of the series has a five year plan you must pay attention to these things.
Oh, damn! Can't believe I forgot to mention the Zathras line!! As you say, there's so much going on here it's easy to miss details, especially when it's a single line. But actually, plot-wise, that one line about Zathras is probably the most important moment of the entire episode, if you start thinking about what it might mean. I think I forgot to mention it due to it being a repeat viewing, but on first viewing that was a proper "WAITAMINUTE!!!" moment.
Agreed, Sheppard is great as G'Sten. I love that you don't realise they are related until the very end of the scene. And also, even on first viewing, there's a definite sense of impending doom. Even before we go to Refa's scheming on Centauri Prime, it already feels like the Narn are unlikely to pull it off.
We also get that great scene with Franklin and G'Kar: Franklin again doing whatever he can to do the right thing at the right time (which is why I tend to remove 'The Long Night' from my memory - his behaviour there is really bizarre, even taking into consideration that this was a 90s show and they weren't as enlightened as us lot!).
As grim and inappropriate as Quantrell's quoted line is.....he's not wrong, is he? It's insensitive, and has a certain admiration of the military achievement baked into it, but he's kind of right in his assessment of the impact and damage. In fact, that grudging admiration reminds me of the reaction to recent real world events involving exploding pagers: a horrible situation, but which military commentators couldn't help themselves from talking about excitedly.
Interesting point about Centauri having artificial gravity. I hadn't quite clocked that. Presumably that would have made the deployment of mass drivers easier, as well? Or more powerful.
Have you watched The Expanse? That has an excellent exploration of the effects of mass drivers.
The Expanse is the only show which, IMHO, challenges B5 for best scl fi show, period. Shame the show stopped at book 6, but the final three are decades later, so, maybe they can get the original cast together in another 10 years and finish it off. The novels have a hell of an ending. You'll appreciate when you get there in your read...
Of course, everything I said about Zathras above was taken only from what has been presented in the series up to this point. Yes, long term, that throwaway line may be one of the most important in the episode for future developments, but the rest of what I have to say on the topic is in Spoilers.
Quantrel isn't wrong with what he said, but he definitely phrased it in the worst possible taste. I'm sure he's a Clarke supporter. Let's give it up for JMS for giving us enough to make some guesses about the man based on a couple of scenes and one quote.
Spotted the empty Markab place in the council chamber at the meeting. Oof.
I missed that! Impressive attention t detail by the showrunners. And grim, obviously.
Non Spoiler (3)
"Abso-fragging-lutely, dammit!"
I do enjoy the Sci-Fi trope of the non-human learning to swear (ineffectively). Delenn here and Spock in Star Trek IV. I think they did that gag with Kryten in Red Dwarf as well.
Never can decide if the gag works better with "we can't REALLY swear" broadcast restrictions or not. Would it be funnier if Delenn could drop a full "Abso-fucking-loutely, goddammit?"
SPOILERS
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That injured Shadow ship... The most creepy thing about a damaged Shadow Cruiser didn't happen in this episode - I assume the Narn lasers cauterized the wound - but will happen in later battles where injured Shadow ships BLEED OUT and shrivel. We know Shadow vessels use sentient species as processing cores, but the ships themselves are also alive. Might they have personalities? Kosh's ship does (it sings), and Shadows "phasing" into hyperspace rather than opening jump points (like Vorlons) hints Shadow tech may be more advanced than Vorlon tech. Are Shadow ships themselves, victims of their masters? I've never asked that question before... Now I imagine a Shadow ship and it's pilot core screaming and crying at each other.
Let's face it, once we get into season 4 JMS is going to play some relativistic morality cards. The Shadows, while the main antagonist of most of the series, aren't, ultimately, "pure evil." They genuinely feel starting wars and blowing up half the galaxy every few centuries is for the greater good of the survivors. And it's in the last two episodes of season 2 the seeds are laid showing the Vorlons aren't "good." Oh, yes, after JACK THE RIPPER, and YOU ALL SEE US AS ANGELS, I was quite leery of the Vorlons. I wasn't that surprised when they pulled out planet killers in s4.
Zathras and the Great Machine - is actually subplot material which may have been hurt by Michael O'Hare leaving the show. Here, the Great Machine is introduced, and Draal places its resources at Sheridan's disposal. Problem is, it only comes into play thruce - Ivanova gets the video clip of Clarke talking to Morden, and, of course, "War Without End." Otherwise, there are even later episodes - I think "Severed Dreams" - where we get, "Ask Draal for help?" "No, I want to keep him as our ace in the hole." How does Draal help in "Severed Dreams?" He uses holograms while Sheridan makes a public service announcement - and I'm damn sure B5 already had a perfectly good PA system. This means B5 is next to a very powerful complex with a frigging TIME MACHINE, and advanced weaponry, and a willing ally which just kind of sits there being ignored for three seasons.
I suspect in the original plan the Great Machine wasn't intended to come into play until season 5, with "War Without End" as the finale. Then JMS pulled that trigger a little early and realized he'd kinda goofed up, but, if he just didn't talk about it, we'd not think about it too much.
Huh. Don't think I have anything to add to this section. Simon pretty much hit everything else.