This episode has the subtlety of a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster, but it also establishes the show as very much "not Star Trek." This ending just doesn't happen in that universe (those universes?).
The father gives convinces the mother, who suddenly remembers that she's been pushing so hard because she lost a goldfish in the first grade, or a grandparent shows up and saves the day, or Dr. Crusher/Pulaski/Holodude in that unwatchable mess/Bashir comes up with a cure just before we cut to the last commercial.
The closest we might have come would be one parent saving the kid and the other stomping off angry. But only in an episode of DS9 that Ronald Moore wrote and somehow snuck past Paramount.
Definitely - Richard Biggs holds the episode together even when the dialogue is punching us on the nose. I especially like his swaggering moments about the steak, just before his crashing realisation.
To skip most of my own lengthy comment in this thread.... 'Believers" is a bit of a first-season "flex" episode. "Look at how dark and gritty we're willing to get! This isn't 'Trek,' but 'REAL' drama."
Honestly I feel like they could've dropped the Ivanova subplot (although I did like the fro and to line); if you're not going to show the big space battle, what's the point?
As far as the wider episode, the father's nearly breaking down got me, and I agree, Franklin's arrogance right before the big twist was a good moment too.
Yeah, the actor portraying the dad did a great job of making about what he's NOT showing. He never fully cracks, but you know exactly what's going through his mind.
This is one of those episodes of Babylon 5 I don't look forward to, and, if I wasn't adding commentary to the commentary I might have skipped it. Just before my re-watch I told Simon on another platform I was tempted to skip it and just do my commentary from memory, but I'd watch the episode to see if any further insights appeared.
So, yeah, here the audience is beaten about the head with a big, pointy stick. It's got the shocking twist ending, but not much else going for it.
I didn't remember the scenes with the Ambassadors, and, from a technical, editing, and pacing standpoint, that sequence is the highlight of the episode. The way the parent's conversations flow smoothly into each next Ambassador, and the use of dialog to bridge the cuts in time are actually quite stylish. Richard Compton is not one of B5's better directors (He's no Mike Vejar or Janet Greek), but, for a couple of minutes he actually put together an effective sequence.
The guest actors do well. Perhaps, as she's allowed to be more emotive, Tricia O' Neill particularly conveys grief and pain. Perhaps it's because she's not afraid as an actress to snot-cry? Even the young actor playing Shon does a quite good job.
But, ultimately, this is a talky episode that lives and dies by it's twist ending, and that's "The Twilight Zone," not "Babylon 5."
Which is a shame, because there are some good questions of religion posed, some excellent character work for Franklin, Sinclair, Dr. Guest-Star, Parents and Child Guest Star, and even some insight into Ambassadors Contractually Obligated to Appear in this Episode. A heavy handed script, mediocre-to-bad camera placement and editing, and with BOTH plot lines ending up feeling unresolved, it's just blah.
This episode is production number 105, and came in the first production block. JMS assigned the premise to David Gerrold for script.. Gerrold's script came back short, and it's JMS who wrote up the B-Plot with Ivanova and the Raiders. And here's a mistake. By setting up a big battle, and not showing it, the audience is left unsatisfied. It's also a total giveaway the entire subplot was filler. Sure, the "battle" would have been basically one more sequence - Ivanova, her wingman, and Asimov at full burn, with the two Starfury's doing spins to fire behind them, and functional lines like "Commander, jumpgate, dead ahead, ETA one minute!" "We made it!". But it would have a sense of closure.
Or, better yet, do something else with that screen time. Now, I bring up production numbers because, being in the first block, with JMS, a new showrunner, who, by this point was starting to fight with soon-to-be-gone Co-Producer Richard Compton (who leaves the show during the first hiatus after filming show 108), while the costume and makeup departments are still putting together their stock ("Believers" features fewer background aliens than prior aired episodes, and clearly they are in masks - not prothstetics - when Franklin is running from Medlab to the parent's quarters, there's a particularly naff-looking Narn which I shouldn't have noticed in the long shot, but, man, the mask was bad....). I SUSPECT, but cannot prove that JMS simply was up against a time crunch and quickly wrote in a filler B-plot from desperation.
In general I'm not a fan of the "here's how I'd fix the movie/episode" discussions. They don't fix the show, and everyone else has their own takes. For this episode, I'll make an exception - because if JMS and David Gerrold had the time, another script revision could save this episode:
1) Eliminate the Raiders subplot. It basically goes nowhere, and the valiant attempt to make it matter by ending the episode on two parents hugging their small child who is debarking Asimov isn't enough to make it work. It's just an attempt to end the episode on a somewhat happier note. One child died, one was saved. *Sings "Circle of Life"*
2) Kill Shon an act earlier. Spend the entire last act dealing with the aftermath. JMS has written elsewhere about all the unanswered questions - were the parents arrested and tried? JMS wrote: "No, the parents were not charged with murder. When a species on the station acts against one of their own kind in a particular way, and no other species is affected, they are judged by the laws that apply to their own species and culture. In their culture, what they did is not a crime, so they received no punishment. Had they done this to a human, then yes, they would have been charged with murder." Gosh, that would have been a nice thing to tackle in the episode itself! Pissed off Franklin could have tried to file charges. Sad Sinclair, could have said "I don't like it either, but we've already discussed the B5 charter in this episodes, here's another way my hands are tied to protect the greater good." Dr. Hernandez and Franklin could have set aside their bet because "Nobody won today." The aftermath could have really driven this home more.
2a) Besides, the Raider subplot makes the episode timeline vague in a BAD way. Ivanova flies off with one wingman. She meets a ship, escorts it partway back, breaks off to pursue a Raider, sees an entire squadron, runs away safely... And how long did that take? Do we need to wonder if there are catheters in flight suits? Do the helmets have a little reservoir of nutrient drink for long flights? It makes the entire episode feel like it takes place during a single shift - 8 to 12 hours. In that 8 to 12 hours there are religious debates, making appointments with multiple Ambassadors, Franklin making a bet at... Lunch, I guess, then filing the paperwork for Garibaldi to read, find a "gloppet egg," blah-blah-blah. Without the B-plot this episode could easily take place over several days, to a week as Shon gets weaker and weaker. Instead it's just raising a lot of questions about the life-support systems of a Starfury.
This episode - while good for Franklin - arguably sets up future inconsistencies with his character. Technically I'm treading into spoiler territory here, but, as I'm going to be vague, I don't think I'm giving anything away. In this episode, and prior episodes this season Franklin comes off as a cynical atheist. "Hey, my prayer has to be as good as theirs, doesn't it?" (Asked as a question, to be clear, not made as a statement.) "It can't hurt." and, later on to Sinclair, "If we hadn't INVENTED God..." (Emphasis added). None of this adds up to Franklin's own stated religious beliefs when they arise in later episodes. See? Not really a spoiler! Those who already know, know. Those, who don't, all I said was "Franklin isn't atheist."
Oddly, with Babylon 5 I've shown this show (and watched it with) several people. Two of them declared they were finally hooked after this episode.
I think here we need some context. Most TV shows, and ESPECIALLY American sci-fi would never kill the kid that way. Something would have happened to have it all turn out correctly. Certainly a 1990s US audience would be pretty ignorant of U.K. shows like U.F.O.(SPOILER FOR U.F.O.) where Strakker diverts the plane carrying the McGuffin which would save his own son's life on an intercept mission, leading to the death of his child and estrangement from his wife. We just didn't get that level of bleak. In some ways this entire episode is a "flex." Oh, you think everything's going to turn out all right in the end? Nah, fuck you, the kid is dead. Feel sad now. We're GRITTY on B5!
At least that's my opinion.
SPOILERS AHEAD.
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You think killing the kid is bleak? Come back in season 2 for "Believers 2: Markab Boogaloo." Yup, "Confessions and Lamentations" (to use the correct title) has the exact central conflict - religious beliefs against rational medical science. The kid dies in that one, too. Along with every other member of the Markab species. It's bleak, it's brutal, and it's one of the most emotionally effective episodes of the entire series. After it's initial airing, I had to go find my cat for snuggles, because I was utterly devastated in the way I wasn't at the end of "Believers." "Confessions" just works on all levels.
Definitely agree that the script was one or two revisions away from being something quite special. Toning it down and extending the ending, and dropping the pointless b-plot, and it could have been one of the season highlights.
The contemporary parallel here is with Trans-kids and the morality of parents preventing what may be life-saving medical intervention. The specter of death hangs differently in that these parents in B5 willingly murder their child because he’s no longer blessed by the egg, but the grim possibility for the child remains comparative.
It's certainly still a very relevant episode, and the alien analogy can be extrapolated out to all sorts of things. It made me think of anti-vaccination attitudes during the pandemic. I just wish the script handled it all with a bit more nuance!
This episode has the subtlety of a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster, but it also establishes the show as very much "not Star Trek." This ending just doesn't happen in that universe (those universes?).
The father gives convinces the mother, who suddenly remembers that she's been pushing so hard because she lost a goldfish in the first grade, or a grandparent shows up and saves the day, or Dr. Crusher/Pulaski/Holodude in that unwatchable mess/Bashir comes up with a cure just before we cut to the last commercial.
The closest we might have come would be one parent saving the kid and the other stomping off angry. But only in an episode of DS9 that Ronald Moore wrote and somehow snuck past Paramount.
P.S. This episode cemented Franklin as one of my favorite characters.
Definitely - Richard Biggs holds the episode together even when the dialogue is punching us on the nose. I especially like his swaggering moments about the steak, just before his crashing realisation.
It is a good one for Franklin.
To skip most of my own lengthy comment in this thread.... 'Believers" is a bit of a first-season "flex" episode. "Look at how dark and gritty we're willing to get! This isn't 'Trek,' but 'REAL' drama."
That worked on me when I saw it! I remember being VERY startled. I must have been about 14 at the time.
Honestly I feel like they could've dropped the Ivanova subplot (although I did like the fro and to line); if you're not going to show the big space battle, what's the point?
As far as the wider episode, the father's nearly breaking down got me, and I agree, Franklin's arrogance right before the big twist was a good moment too.
Yeah, the actor portraying the dad did a great job of making about what he's NOT showing. He never fully cracks, but you know exactly what's going through his mind.
NON SPOILERY STUFF.
This is one of those episodes of Babylon 5 I don't look forward to, and, if I wasn't adding commentary to the commentary I might have skipped it. Just before my re-watch I told Simon on another platform I was tempted to skip it and just do my commentary from memory, but I'd watch the episode to see if any further insights appeared.
So, yeah, here the audience is beaten about the head with a big, pointy stick. It's got the shocking twist ending, but not much else going for it.
I didn't remember the scenes with the Ambassadors, and, from a technical, editing, and pacing standpoint, that sequence is the highlight of the episode. The way the parent's conversations flow smoothly into each next Ambassador, and the use of dialog to bridge the cuts in time are actually quite stylish. Richard Compton is not one of B5's better directors (He's no Mike Vejar or Janet Greek), but, for a couple of minutes he actually put together an effective sequence.
The guest actors do well. Perhaps, as she's allowed to be more emotive, Tricia O' Neill particularly conveys grief and pain. Perhaps it's because she's not afraid as an actress to snot-cry? Even the young actor playing Shon does a quite good job.
But, ultimately, this is a talky episode that lives and dies by it's twist ending, and that's "The Twilight Zone," not "Babylon 5."
Which is a shame, because there are some good questions of religion posed, some excellent character work for Franklin, Sinclair, Dr. Guest-Star, Parents and Child Guest Star, and even some insight into Ambassadors Contractually Obligated to Appear in this Episode. A heavy handed script, mediocre-to-bad camera placement and editing, and with BOTH plot lines ending up feeling unresolved, it's just blah.
This episode is production number 105, and came in the first production block. JMS assigned the premise to David Gerrold for script.. Gerrold's script came back short, and it's JMS who wrote up the B-Plot with Ivanova and the Raiders. And here's a mistake. By setting up a big battle, and not showing it, the audience is left unsatisfied. It's also a total giveaway the entire subplot was filler. Sure, the "battle" would have been basically one more sequence - Ivanova, her wingman, and Asimov at full burn, with the two Starfury's doing spins to fire behind them, and functional lines like "Commander, jumpgate, dead ahead, ETA one minute!" "We made it!". But it would have a sense of closure.
Or, better yet, do something else with that screen time. Now, I bring up production numbers because, being in the first block, with JMS, a new showrunner, who, by this point was starting to fight with soon-to-be-gone Co-Producer Richard Compton (who leaves the show during the first hiatus after filming show 108), while the costume and makeup departments are still putting together their stock ("Believers" features fewer background aliens than prior aired episodes, and clearly they are in masks - not prothstetics - when Franklin is running from Medlab to the parent's quarters, there's a particularly naff-looking Narn which I shouldn't have noticed in the long shot, but, man, the mask was bad....). I SUSPECT, but cannot prove that JMS simply was up against a time crunch and quickly wrote in a filler B-plot from desperation.
In general I'm not a fan of the "here's how I'd fix the movie/episode" discussions. They don't fix the show, and everyone else has their own takes. For this episode, I'll make an exception - because if JMS and David Gerrold had the time, another script revision could save this episode:
1) Eliminate the Raiders subplot. It basically goes nowhere, and the valiant attempt to make it matter by ending the episode on two parents hugging their small child who is debarking Asimov isn't enough to make it work. It's just an attempt to end the episode on a somewhat happier note. One child died, one was saved. *Sings "Circle of Life"*
2) Kill Shon an act earlier. Spend the entire last act dealing with the aftermath. JMS has written elsewhere about all the unanswered questions - were the parents arrested and tried? JMS wrote: "No, the parents were not charged with murder. When a species on the station acts against one of their own kind in a particular way, and no other species is affected, they are judged by the laws that apply to their own species and culture. In their culture, what they did is not a crime, so they received no punishment. Had they done this to a human, then yes, they would have been charged with murder." Gosh, that would have been a nice thing to tackle in the episode itself! Pissed off Franklin could have tried to file charges. Sad Sinclair, could have said "I don't like it either, but we've already discussed the B5 charter in this episodes, here's another way my hands are tied to protect the greater good." Dr. Hernandez and Franklin could have set aside their bet because "Nobody won today." The aftermath could have really driven this home more.
2a) Besides, the Raider subplot makes the episode timeline vague in a BAD way. Ivanova flies off with one wingman. She meets a ship, escorts it partway back, breaks off to pursue a Raider, sees an entire squadron, runs away safely... And how long did that take? Do we need to wonder if there are catheters in flight suits? Do the helmets have a little reservoir of nutrient drink for long flights? It makes the entire episode feel like it takes place during a single shift - 8 to 12 hours. In that 8 to 12 hours there are religious debates, making appointments with multiple Ambassadors, Franklin making a bet at... Lunch, I guess, then filing the paperwork for Garibaldi to read, find a "gloppet egg," blah-blah-blah. Without the B-plot this episode could easily take place over several days, to a week as Shon gets weaker and weaker. Instead it's just raising a lot of questions about the life-support systems of a Starfury.
This episode - while good for Franklin - arguably sets up future inconsistencies with his character. Technically I'm treading into spoiler territory here, but, as I'm going to be vague, I don't think I'm giving anything away. In this episode, and prior episodes this season Franklin comes off as a cynical atheist. "Hey, my prayer has to be as good as theirs, doesn't it?" (Asked as a question, to be clear, not made as a statement.) "It can't hurt." and, later on to Sinclair, "If we hadn't INVENTED God..." (Emphasis added). None of this adds up to Franklin's own stated religious beliefs when they arise in later episodes. See? Not really a spoiler! Those who already know, know. Those, who don't, all I said was "Franklin isn't atheist."
Oddly, with Babylon 5 I've shown this show (and watched it with) several people. Two of them declared they were finally hooked after this episode.
I think here we need some context. Most TV shows, and ESPECIALLY American sci-fi would never kill the kid that way. Something would have happened to have it all turn out correctly. Certainly a 1990s US audience would be pretty ignorant of U.K. shows like U.F.O.(SPOILER FOR U.F.O.) where Strakker diverts the plane carrying the McGuffin which would save his own son's life on an intercept mission, leading to the death of his child and estrangement from his wife. We just didn't get that level of bleak. In some ways this entire episode is a "flex." Oh, you think everything's going to turn out all right in the end? Nah, fuck you, the kid is dead. Feel sad now. We're GRITTY on B5!
At least that's my opinion.
SPOILERS AHEAD.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
You think killing the kid is bleak? Come back in season 2 for "Believers 2: Markab Boogaloo." Yup, "Confessions and Lamentations" (to use the correct title) has the exact central conflict - religious beliefs against rational medical science. The kid dies in that one, too. Along with every other member of the Markab species. It's bleak, it's brutal, and it's one of the most emotionally effective episodes of the entire series. After it's initial airing, I had to go find my cat for snuggles, because I was utterly devastated in the way I wasn't at the end of "Believers." "Confessions" just works on all levels.
Definitely agree that the script was one or two revisions away from being something quite special. Toning it down and extending the ending, and dropping the pointless b-plot, and it could have been one of the season highlights.
The contemporary parallel here is with Trans-kids and the morality of parents preventing what may be life-saving medical intervention. The specter of death hangs differently in that these parents in B5 willingly murder their child because he’s no longer blessed by the egg, but the grim possibility for the child remains comparative.
It's certainly still a very relevant episode, and the alien analogy can be extrapolated out to all sorts of things. It made me think of anti-vaccination attitudes during the pandemic. I just wish the script handled it all with a bit more nuance!