Immediate place that pops to mind is New Crobuzon in Perdido Street Station (China Miéville). Yagharek's arrival allows description of the city in incredible detail, but the real sense of place is simply the way that Isaac Dan der Grimnebulin inhabits it in his everyday life and work.
It's a great, dense book. I felt it perhaps went on a tad too long, but there's no doubt that China is a master worldbuilder and crafter of the strange/weird.
Favorite scene build: Besides the obvious choice of Arrakis, Raymond Chandler’s Los Angeles was so real to me as a New York kid I felt like I knew it when I moved there.
Place is tricky, and I've found for me it always comes down to the viewpoint/viewpoint character. Those places the viewpoint character is overly familiar with are just there with minimal description. When the viewpoint character ends up somewhere new/exciting/different there's more discussion of it.
So, I guess that means trying to switch up the viewpoint to an "outsider" every once in a while. Which is, unsurprisingly, another way to highlight culture.
Yeah, linking the description to the character is vital, I think. Though harder if you're doing a 3rd person omniscient kind of narration, I suppose. Back in the day that would be more common.
Much as I love Tolkien, I do find some of the landscape description in LotR quite tricky: it's detailed to the point that I sometimes feel like I'm not getting a full grasp of it.
I really like to establish “place” by taking things for granted.
For example--I used to live in the surrounds of washington dc. Seeing the washington monument or the capitol building would not inspire a sense of awe in me the way they would awe a tourist visiting for the first time.
In this way, you draw a contrast between what, to the reader, is a completely new experience; and what to the character is boring and old-hat.
Great article, Ive been thinking a lot about place recently so this is timely!
Thanks! And yeah, that kind of juxtaposition can be especially fun if you're writing science fiction, I find. A mundane reaction from a character to something which is clearly astonishing (to the reader) says a lot.
That's something The Expanse (TV show and books) does really well. The mundanity of space travel is part of what makes it so evocative.
The Lost Boys is my go-to for scene-setting. So much so that my book BLOOD ON THE BOARDWALK is based on it. But I like to use it as a way to better set the scene. Movies allow you that look around without pausing the plot that writing tends to do. So how do I move my characters through the scene while capturing the scene itself? My go-to is my MC or POV character walking through the world and noticing. Everything. Anything. When the Emersons are driving into Santa Carla, Sam remarks “It smells like someone died.” Brine can smell like that, but the visceral response is immediate. Then the opening is the family moving through Santa Carla on their way to Lucy’s dad’s house and they’re noticing everything. As someone new to a place, you get have that excuse to pile more information in. For someone who lives there, the world will exist more in the periphery. They might not smell that dead body smell because they live there. But a waft of dank in otherwise “clean” air will hit them.
I'm just at the editing stage of From Within, A Darkness, my next Ray Adams book, which appears to have been an invaluable time to read this. Good stuff, Simon.
This was a fantastic read! Your pointers are super useful. I’m reading A Long Way to A Small Angry Planet by Becky Chambers right now and it has a fantastic sense of place. Every new planet or ship feels lived in and real through her evocative prose.
On the subject of travel, I’d highly recommend checking out this travelogue by Carson Ellis (Slowpoke) in which he describes, illustrates and photographs his journey across Japan.
This makes a lot of sense and your checklist is similar to how I approach my scenes (but I'm not organized enough to actually have a checklist so thanks!). I have a tendency to be a little wordy in my first drafts, so when editing my drafts I find myself removing things from the descriptions of the scene opting to let the reader fill it in unless it's important to the story - leaving enough but not too much. Anyway, nice points and I especially like the idea of having ordinary interactions like cantinas or markets. I did that without even realizing I did and it makes me think about that schwarma cut scene from the first Avengers movie (I think).
I think it's why you often get diminishing returns on those kinds of movies: at the start the heroes are rooted in 'reality' of some sort, and then as the stories become more and more outlandish they become increasingly distanced from those touchpoints.
I guess PARIS must've slipped under the radar. But the detail of that page...? I'm gonna go look for that and pick it up. I used to draw when I was younger, I mean real young, in my teens. I know that if I draw a picture every day, I might be able to match yours...in about FIVE years!
God, the detail in Paris is quite something. It feels like what happens if you apply Where's Wally-level detail to something more story-based and adult. It's beautiful and layered in a way I've not seen much in comics. It's not a long book, but I spent ages poring over the individual panels.
I've had my eye on that Paris book! Will check it out. Another graphic novel with incredible sense of place - This One Summer by Mariko & Jillian Tamaki
I agree with the drip feeding of information. My novel’s protagonist lives in a city in contemporary Northern California but suddenly also has access to a fantasy magical forest. I emphasize the physical contrast between these two worlds but equally, like with the donut shop or scenes of people eating, it’s the sameness of familiar actions (eg eating, markets etc) that make both worlds real to the reader.
Incidental background normalcy is so critical, and so easily forgotten when you're busy with plots and characters and the big moments. Without those anchors everything can end up feeling a bit floaty and inconsequential, because it doesn't feel like a real place.
Another great and thought-provoking post, Simon!
Immediate place that pops to mind is New Crobuzon in Perdido Street Station (China Miéville). Yagharek's arrival allows description of the city in incredible detail, but the real sense of place is simply the way that Isaac Dan der Grimnebulin inhabits it in his everyday life and work.
Thanks, Nathan!
I have Perdido Street Station on the shelf having had it recommended many times, but haven't got to reading it yet. Really need to sort that out.
It's a great, dense book. I felt it perhaps went on a tad too long, but there's no doubt that China is a master worldbuilder and crafter of the strange/weird.
Favorite scene build: Besides the obvious choice of Arrakis, Raymond Chandler’s Los Angeles was so real to me as a New York kid I felt like I knew it when I moved there.
Love that feeling. And yes, Arrakis is amazing. The Drowned World by Ballard has stayed with me for decades, too.
Place is tricky, and I've found for me it always comes down to the viewpoint/viewpoint character. Those places the viewpoint character is overly familiar with are just there with minimal description. When the viewpoint character ends up somewhere new/exciting/different there's more discussion of it.
So, I guess that means trying to switch up the viewpoint to an "outsider" every once in a while. Which is, unsurprisingly, another way to highlight culture.
Yeah, linking the description to the character is vital, I think. Though harder if you're doing a 3rd person omniscient kind of narration, I suppose. Back in the day that would be more common.
Much as I love Tolkien, I do find some of the landscape description in LotR quite tricky: it's detailed to the point that I sometimes feel like I'm not getting a full grasp of it.
I really like to establish “place” by taking things for granted.
For example--I used to live in the surrounds of washington dc. Seeing the washington monument or the capitol building would not inspire a sense of awe in me the way they would awe a tourist visiting for the first time.
In this way, you draw a contrast between what, to the reader, is a completely new experience; and what to the character is boring and old-hat.
Great article, Ive been thinking a lot about place recently so this is timely!
Thanks! And yeah, that kind of juxtaposition can be especially fun if you're writing science fiction, I find. A mundane reaction from a character to something which is clearly astonishing (to the reader) says a lot.
That's something The Expanse (TV show and books) does really well. The mundanity of space travel is part of what makes it so evocative.
The Lost Boys is my go-to for scene-setting. So much so that my book BLOOD ON THE BOARDWALK is based on it. But I like to use it as a way to better set the scene. Movies allow you that look around without pausing the plot that writing tends to do. So how do I move my characters through the scene while capturing the scene itself? My go-to is my MC or POV character walking through the world and noticing. Everything. Anything. When the Emersons are driving into Santa Carla, Sam remarks “It smells like someone died.” Brine can smell like that, but the visceral response is immediate. Then the opening is the family moving through Santa Carla on their way to Lucy’s dad’s house and they’re noticing everything. As someone new to a place, you get have that excuse to pile more information in. For someone who lives there, the world will exist more in the periphery. They might not smell that dead body smell because they live there. But a waft of dank in otherwise “clean” air will hit them.
I'm just at the editing stage of From Within, A Darkness, my next Ray Adams book, which appears to have been an invaluable time to read this. Good stuff, Simon.
Happy to help! Have fun in the edit. :)
This was a fantastic read! Your pointers are super useful. I’m reading A Long Way to A Small Angry Planet by Becky Chambers right now and it has a fantastic sense of place. Every new planet or ship feels lived in and real through her evocative prose.
On the subject of travel, I’d highly recommend checking out this travelogue by Carson Ellis (Slowpoke) in which he describes, illustrates and photographs his journey across Japan.
https://carsonellis.substack.com/p/travelogue-japan-part-1?utm_source=%2Finbox%2Fsaved&utm_medium=reader2
Thanks, Matt. Will check out those tips. That Becky Chambers book sounds great.
This makes a lot of sense and your checklist is similar to how I approach my scenes (but I'm not organized enough to actually have a checklist so thanks!). I have a tendency to be a little wordy in my first drafts, so when editing my drafts I find myself removing things from the descriptions of the scene opting to let the reader fill it in unless it's important to the story - leaving enough but not too much. Anyway, nice points and I especially like the idea of having ordinary interactions like cantinas or markets. I did that without even realizing I did and it makes me think about that schwarma cut scene from the first Avengers movie (I think).
I think it's why you often get diminishing returns on those kinds of movies: at the start the heroes are rooted in 'reality' of some sort, and then as the stories become more and more outlandish they become increasingly distanced from those touchpoints.
I guess PARIS must've slipped under the radar. But the detail of that page...? I'm gonna go look for that and pick it up. I used to draw when I was younger, I mean real young, in my teens. I know that if I draw a picture every day, I might be able to match yours...in about FIVE years!
God, the detail in Paris is quite something. It feels like what happens if you apply Where's Wally-level detail to something more story-based and adult. It's beautiful and layered in a way I've not seen much in comics. It's not a long book, but I spent ages poring over the individual panels.
Damn! Now I gotta get dressed and drive out to the bookstore.
I've had my eye on that Paris book! Will check it out. Another graphic novel with incredible sense of place - This One Summer by Mariko & Jillian Tamaki
Oh, will check that one out.
Hope you enjoy Paris. :)
I agree with the drip feeding of information. My novel’s protagonist lives in a city in contemporary Northern California but suddenly also has access to a fantasy magical forest. I emphasize the physical contrast between these two worlds but equally, like with the donut shop or scenes of people eating, it’s the sameness of familiar actions (eg eating, markets etc) that make both worlds real to the reader.
Incidental background normalcy is so critical, and so easily forgotten when you're busy with plots and characters and the big moments. Without those anchors everything can end up feeling a bit floaty and inconsequential, because it doesn't feel like a real place.